Ford Class Carriers

JonMusser

New Member
Yeah I'm scared for the Navy as well. Do they need 11 carriers? Yes.

Do they need more DDG-51 destroyers/cruisers? Yes.

Do they need more Virginia class attack subs and 12 SSBN(X)? Yes.

Do they need 60 LCS? No, those need to be canceled IMO.
COMPLETELY AGREE

if the navy had a choice between LCS and Carriers, Virginia class and DDG-51 i think we all know what they would choose because they are proven!

I thought building 1 carrier every 5 years was more economically sustainable according to Gates, now its too expensive? Gates is too much of a wish washy politician that makes me nervous as hell. He changes his mind way too much like when he cut the F-22 for more F-35s now he cuts the F-35 buy through 2015, I don't like him one bit.
no pretty soon since we do not have the navy and air force as much in Iraq and Afghanistan where jusdt going to stop buying the best fighters for the air force we are going to stop procuring the best ships for the navy and essentially we are going to screw our selfs over if anyone other than a terrorist gain a little back bone.
 

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I guess it's a good thing for the US to have the Swedes and Germans as their allies eh? I've seen on Nat Geo on how silent this Swedish sub is, with it's hydrogen fuel cell engines, and that the US Navy even "borrowed" the sub for trainings. It would be scary if technologies like these would be acquired by nations hostile to the US, or any other country for that matter. Sounds like these subs are almost like deterrents to Carriers.
The leasing of the Gotland, its use and other AIP equipped SSK's have been discussed in depth on this forum, go do a search rather than just spew uninformed drivel.
 
I thought building 1 carrier every 5 years was more economically sustainable according to Gates, now its too expensive? Gates is too much of a wish washy politician that makes me nervous as hell. He changes his mind way too much like when he cut the F-22 for more F-35s now he cuts the F-35 buy through 2015, I don't like him one bit.
you don't like him because of these reasons?
are you in a more qualified position to be arguing against his reasoning?
are you working from the same classified information that he is?
are you aware of how he is coming to his conclusions/recommendations? -or are you just upset your favorite fighter jets are being cut back.

times are tough right now. the world and current situations are very dynamic; especially from the economic standpoint. some things can change from day to day. i wouldn't call this "wish washy".
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
COMPLETELY AGREE

if the navy had a choice between LCS and Carriers, Virginia class and DDG-51 i think we all know what they would choose because they are proven!



no pretty soon since we do not have the navy and air force as much in Iraq and Afghanistan where jusdt going to stop buying the best fighters for the air force we are going to stop procuring the best ships for the navy and essentially we are going to screw our selfs over if anyone other than a terrorist gain a little back bone.
I have a feeling that Gates is going to cram the LCS down the Navy's throats even though they don't want it.

you don't like him because of these reasons?
are you in a more qualified position to be arguing against his reasoning?
are you working from the same classified information that he is?
are you aware of how he is coming to his conclusions/recommendations? -or are you just upset your favorite fighter jets are being cut back.

times are tough right now. the world and current situations are very dynamic; especially from the economic standpoint. some things can change from day to day. i wouldn't call this "wish washy".

There are a lot of people who will disagree with Gates not just me like the Navy itself. I do recall the US Government was easily able to fund much more expensive things then just building a few ships back in 2009 like the stimulus for example. So we can afford that but not build our own Navy?

Oh an it is wish washy is Gates says he is going to do one thing then a month later does something else.
 

spectre000

New Member
I wouldn't call Gates wishy-washy. He's only faced with newer economic realities. Yes, it would be great for the US and free nations to have a larger stronger American navy. But the US cannot sustain $700+ billion defense budgets.

Gates is simply trying to justify the cuts to the navy and other branches out of economic necessity.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
COMPLETELY AGREE

if the navy had a choice between LCS and Carriers, Virginia class and DDG-51 i think we all know what they would choose because they are proven!



no pretty soon since we do not have the navy and air force as much in Iraq and Afghanistan where jusdt going to stop buying the best fighters for the air force we are going to stop procuring the best ships for the navy and essentially we are going to screw our selfs over if anyone other than a terrorist gain a little back bone.
The Burke Flight I's were built to replace the Adams and Coontz class destroyers. The Burke Flight II's were built to replace Spruance class destroyers. All have been replaced, yet there are those who advocate building Burkes to replace Perry class frigates. $2 billiion destroyers to replace $200 million frigates. No wonder why we have a huge deficit...

Nevertheless there are those who lament the price of LCS? $500 million ships are too expensive but $2 billion ships aren't? Some need to learn math... .
 

Sea Toby

New Member
I have a feeling that Gates is going to cram the LCS down the Navy's throats even though they don't want it.




There are a lot of people who will disagree with Gates not just me like the Navy itself. I do recall the US Government was easily able to fund much more expensive things then just building a few ships back in 2009 like the stimulus for example. So we can afford that but not build our own Navy?

Oh an it is wish washy is Gates says he is going to do one thing then a month later does something else.
Unfortunately you couldn't be more wrong. Its the navy that wants to build LCS. The last three CNOs have advocated building LCS. The navy also wants DDX and CGX too, not more Burkes. Its the Congress and you who wish to build more Burkes, Burkes we don't need...
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
Unfortunately you couldn't be more wrong. Its the navy that wants to build LCS. The last three CNOs have advocated building LCS. The navy also wants DDX and CGX too, not more Burkes. Its the Congress and you who wish to build more Burkes, Burkes we don't need...
OK your right about the LCS but...

After what happened to the DDX, good luck getting the CGX to work, they are far better off building Flight III Burkes then trying to spend billions of dollars and the next 20 years trying to develop the questionable design of the CGX.

The Navy will need Flight III Burkes to replace the aging Ticonderoa class ships starting in 2016....
 

Sea Toby

New Member
OK your right about the LCS but...

After what happened to the DDX, good luck getting the CGX to work, they are far better off building Flight III Burkes then trying to spend billions of dollars and the next 20 years trying to develop the questionable design of the CGX.

The Navy will need Flight III Burkes to replace the aging Ticonderoa class ships starting in 2016....
The DDX program ended with only three Zumwalts ordered. I have yet to see a finished final design for the CGX yet. You might like it better than a Burke III. We are still six years away from having to order one.
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
The DDX program ended with only three Zumwalts ordered. I have yet to see a finished final design for the CGX yet. You might like it better than a Burke III. We are still six years away from having to order one.
The CG(X) has been canceled and replaced by the Flight III Burkes so we wont see a CG(X) ever.
 

JonMusser

New Member
The CG(X) has been canceled and replaced by the Flight III Burkes so we wont see a CG(X) ever.
i am sorry but i have only herd that the Dept. of defense is giving the Congress three options 1 the Bukre III 2 the CGX and 3 and entirely new design i have not herd that the actually canceled the new cruiser and chosen the Burke Flight III
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
i am sorry but i have only herd that the Dept. of defense is giving the Congress three options 1 the Bukre III 2 the CGX and 3 and entirely new design i have not herd that the actually canceled the new cruiser and chosen the Burke Flight III
The CG(X) has in fact been canceled and the DDG-1000 buy is cut to only 3 ships, Flight III DDG-51s will replace the canceled CG(X) mostly because of cost.

http://opencrs.com/document/RL32109/2010-02-26/?24684
 

JonMusser

New Member

F-15 Eagle

New Member
okay i think that is upsetting i think the Navy need a new design for a ship

however, back to the Topic i read that Gates back peddled on his stance on cutting carriers:
I’m not going to cut a carrier

from: DoD Buzz | Gates Orders Military, Change Now
Well thats great news about not cutting a carrier because he had me worried there for a second.:D

I'm a little concerned about the SSBN(X) though as it may be on the chopping block even though the 2010 NPR by the Obama Administration said the Navy needs 12 new SSBNs to replace the current force of aging Ohio class ships, and I agree they do need a new SSBN.
 

Juramentado

New Member
however, back to the Topic i read that Gates back peddled on his stance on cutting carriers:
I’m not going to cut a carrier

from: DoD Buzz | Gates Orders Military, Change Now
Part of that backpedalling is the reality that the majority of the Navy's real inluencers, i.e., leadership, up & comers, gurus) can and often have, waited out a particular SECDEF's tenure or a particular vision. Gates knows there's no way he can stay in his current post long enough to see significant cuts to the carrier force. To be sure, he can influence the delay or even cancellation of future big deck procurements, but not to the blood-and-guts extent that his fiery speech at the Navy League would have us believe. The immediate and permanent acts he can do is to kill programs that are at their infancy like EFV.
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
Part of that backpedalling is the reality that the majority of the Navy's real inluencers, i.e., leadership, up & comers, gurus) can and often have, waited out a particular SECDEF's tenure or a particular vision. Gates knows there's no way he can stay in his current post long enough to see significant cuts to the carrier force. To be sure, he can influence the delay or even cancellation of future big deck procurements, but not to the blood-and-guts extent that his fiery speech at the Navy League would have us believe. The immediate and permanent acts he can do is to kill programs that are at their infancy like EFV.
I can't image anyone canceling the new Gerald R. Ford class carriers other than pushing the buy rate to five year intervals instead of four. I don't think Gates wants to see the carrier force go anywhere below 10-11 ships.

And if they cancel the EFV, what will replace it?
 

Juramentado

New Member
I can't image anyone canceling the new Gerald R. Ford class carriers other than pushing the buy rate to five year intervals instead of four. I don't think Gates wants to see the carrier force go anywhere below 10-11 ships.

And if they cancel the EFV, what will replace it?

Direct quote from the SecDef's speech; bolding is mine:

Second – aircraft carriers. Our current plan is to have eleven carrier strike groups through 2040 and it's in the budget. And to be sure, the need to project power across the oceans will never go away. But, consider the massive over-match the U.S. already enjoys. Consider, too, the growing anti-ship capabilities of adversaries. Do we really need eleven carrier strike groups for another 30 years when no other country has more than one? Any future plans must address these realities.

So even if he backpedals, he can make efforts to attrite the replacement program by cutting back the number of new decks intended to replace current carriers. That will effectively reduce the total number of CSGs.

I would read through the speech transcript online. Better minds than me have already taken apart the EFV issue thoroughly. :cool:
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
Direct quote from the SecDef's speech; bolding is mine:

Second – aircraft carriers. Our current plan is to have eleven carrier strike groups through 2040 and it's in the budget. And to be sure, the need to project power across the oceans will never go away. But, consider the massive over-match the U.S. already enjoys. Consider, too, the growing anti-ship capabilities of adversaries. Do we really need eleven carrier strike groups for another 30 years when no other country has more than one? Any future plans must address these realities.

So even if he backpedals, he can make efforts to attrite the replacement program by cutting back the number of new decks intended to replace current carriers. That will effectively reduce the total number of CSGs.

I would read through the speech transcript online. Better minds than me have already taken apart the EFV issue thoroughly. :cool:
Yes we need 11 carriers no one in their right mind would cut them, unless they think its not fair that the US has such a huge navel advantage and we should cut our carriers to play nice for our enemies.:rolleyes:
 

Sea Toby

New Member
If it was that important they'd probably just throw some steam Cats on a modded USS America, faster to build, conventional propulsion and it can be built in more yards

Either that or Ski jumps and F35Bs
The only shipyard building the America and Wasp class amphibious assault ships is Ingalls in Mississippi. They have the trained workforce to do so. Please google earth or map the Mississippi coast about twenty miles from the Alabama border. You will notice this shipyard is huge in comparison to other shipyards... This shipyard makes other shipyards look small...

All of the Spruance class, Kidd class,, and Ticonderoga class ships have been built there. Half of the Arleigh Burke class have been built there, and all of the Tarawa class and Wasp class have been built there.. And currently the Bertholf class cutters are being built there.
 
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