Flanker Export Thread
- Thread starter Haavarla
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Haavarla
Active Member
48 Su-35 export deal to China are about to be signed.
4bln, thats 83 mil for each unit..
Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China | World | RIA Novosti
4bln, thats 83 mil for each unit..
Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China | World | RIA Novosti
That article looks suspect: "Russian experts claim that Chinese Chengdu J-10 fighter is a copy of Su-27 Flanker, Shenyang J-11 is a replica of Su-30 Flanker-C, and FC-1 is a copy of MiG-29 Fulcrum."
Russian experts don't claim anything of the sort.
The J-11 is an Su-27SK upgrade. The rest are unrelated.
Russian experts don't claim anything of the sort.
The J-11 is an Su-27SK upgrade. The rest are unrelated.
Air Force Brat
Member
Thats probably the only approach we can take, after reading the article it is dated from June 3, and some things may have changed, one thing hasn't changed and that is China's commitment to gain capability, and as you say I have no doubt that they are anxious to purchase the Su-35, it would certainly give them some insight into the latest electronics and engine tech.
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Lenta.ru ran the same article, but mentioned that the price may change. Regardless of copyright, access to the aircraft systems will help them develop their own variants.
Lenta.ru:
The deal with China and the SU-35 is one I dont understand.
China do doubt will copy it......
Like I said, in a few years it will be the J-12B powered by WS-12 Engine....
oh boy
on a side note, is there any chance that China is buying this to further develop engine development for J-20?
China do doubt will copy it......
Like I said, in a few years it will be the J-12B powered by WS-12 Engine....
oh boy
on a side note, is there any chance that China is buying this to further develop engine development for J-20?
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
I'm also hoping that the Russian Government knows what they are doing....selling one of your most advanced fighters to the masters of copy-paste...
But maybe it will be an export version, with a lot of components downgraded....
But maybe it will be an export version, with a lot of components downgraded....
It won't be the most advanced post 2015. And given likely delivery dates China will receive their first Su-35 at the same time as the VVS receives their first PAK-FA. It wouldn't be a bad strategy to focus on exporting Su-35 and Su-30MK derivatives, while purchasing PAK-FA domestically.
Air Force Brat
Member
Exactly, that is a good strategy, and the PLAAF is about capability, something they lack at present, I have a sneaking suspicion that China would like to have a look at some of Russia's engine and technology upgrades. So Russia is able to capitalize the Pak Fa, and China would have a fleet of Su-35, while they play with getting the J-20 up and running, wouldn't really surprise me, with as many aerodynamic tweaks as the J-bird employs, flight testing is highly unlikely to be as simple as they are making it look. The other question is where are 2002 and 2003, its a year after first flight and still no other baby birds?
I have a question.
I am reading all these articles on how Moscow right now its trying to keep the contract air tight on making sure there will be no copyright breach...
however im pretty sure the J-11/Su-27 contract had the same thing, and the PLAAF did it anyways.
there is basically no consequences so whats exactly going to stop them from reverse engineering?
I am reading all these articles on how Moscow right now its trying to keep the contract air tight on making sure there will be no copyright breach...
however im pretty sure the J-11/Su-27 contract had the same thing, and the PLAAF did it anyways.
there is basically no consequences so whats exactly going to stop them from reverse engineering?
The Su-27 license prevented them from reselling, not from domestic manufacture. Without knowing the details of the license, we don't even know if the J-11 design violates it.
The real issue is that they're desperate to get sales for the Su-35S. It was originally designed as a way to develop and sell some of the systems for the PAK-FA, to help finance the project. If they don't get enough Su-35S sales, they will have difficulty with funding later down the road.
Ahh I see
I kinda still want to know what the consequences would be(if any) if they Chinese once again illegally produced the SU-35 into the J-12
I doubt 48 aircraft warrants a license production set up. If they purchase in excess of 100 aircraft total, lets say 48 produced in Russia, another 48 from semi-knocked down kits in China, and another XX number in China from parts with some localization.
Air Force Brat
Member
Thats certainly possible and it really is a win-win, China gets Russias latest tech, Russia capitalizes Pak-Fa, and has the prestige of an engineering coup, and probably sells a few more super flankers, which by the way has the looks of a winner. If I could sell China a coupla hundred F-35s in order to build a 100 Raptors, game on. So, I sell you my Su-35s and build my T-50s, I'm in. Works for me.
It be more like selling China a couple hundred F-15s to build more F-22s. And China doesn't get the tech. Just some access to it. Unless ToT is involved, China is getting a black box with the tech inside it.
Air Force Brat
Member
Well, you get my point at least, as usual you are right about the teck, but don't you think even USAF was curious about Flanker teck of the Indian birds? They do incorporate canards and TVC nozzles, and seeing how the other guy solves problems can be insightfull at times.
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