Falklands tensions

[StobieWan]

It would also be completely unacceptable to the people of the Falkland Islands themselves. Who overwhelmingly consider them selves to be British

Trade, peaceful interaction, a softer approach, and patience...

 

[swerve]

...
the fact the 3000 people who live in the falklands are British going back many generations and over 170+ years its there home, this doesnt mean any thing to Argentina its all about money, .

It's not all about money, & it never has been. Oil is now an issue, but for many years Argentina pushed its claim despite the expectation that the Falklands would cost it money if ceded. Before 1982, Argentina provided some indirect subsidies to the islanders, e.g. by providing them with subsidised flights to Argentina - their only air link to the rest of the world at the time.

 

[Astute]

It's not all about money, & it never has been. Oil is now an issue, but for many years Argentina pushed its claim despite the expectation that the Falklands would cost it money if ceded. Before 1982, Argentina provided some indirect subsidies to the islanders, e.g. by providing them with subsidised flights to Argentina - their only air link to the rest of the world at the time.

Hi swerve , i did not mean its always been about the money but the recent up scale in Argentinas effort to bully the islanders , must have some thing to do with the possible rich oil feilds and the possiblity of other countries having a stake in them example the US, this would make the argument more complicated from there point of view, and they also want to show there strength to the rest of South America,
Yes they could of provided subsidies to the islanders , flights etc before 82, but not long later they invaded. if the island was populated by Argentinian citizens for the last 170+ years there would not be a case for the British goverment to argue but its not the islanders are British and British by choice the falklands is there home , and lets face it theres easier places to live but there they are, they want to live in peace but conflict has been forced on them in the past, and i for one can understand why they dont want to live under the control of the Argentinian goverment which as had a colourful history of military repression, coups etc but this is just my opinon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Astute]

Gentlemen,
I have always sided with the Brits in this dispute, still I think that the arguments and are strikingly similar on both sides. When Brits are talking about Argie aggression, they are considering 1982 but when Argies talk about Brits` agression they have in mind not only the Falkland situation but also the events in Rio de La Plata in 1806-1807. Then we have the common accusations of colonialism, and later the accusations that the other side is distracting the attention from the severe economic problems in the country, etc.
The really strong point of Britain is the right of self determination. And the military superiority, of course. The last one is usually abouth 90% of the judicial, historic and other argument. :ar15

hi exprivate , i have got to say if every country still wanted to fight the old wars of hundreds of years ago the world would be at war constantly,
I think theres abit of difference between a conflict 30 years ago and 205-6 years ago, and remember we didnt even want the 82 falklands conflict , it was forced on to us by Argentina, i think if thats what Argentina is thinking then they need to let it go, as old enemies can become friends look at the UK we fought wars with france for 100s of years but we are at peace and are close friends and allies same with Germany these are just an example, the world has moved on,,,,,,,
Argentina as approached this totaly the wrong way ,Its tried to show its teeth when talking about it could of worked out better, But the UK will never back down to a bully not now not ever......

 

[exPrivate]

Astute,
I totally agree with you on that. War is the worst solution, still sometimes it is inevitable. I`m sure this time it won`t be a solution to this problem at all.

 

[StobieWan]

And today, very strangely, the Argentinian foreign minister waved a photograph of a submarine and claimed the Vanguard was in the South Atlantic.

I despair.

 

[rip]

hi exprivate , i have got to say if every country still wanted to fight the old wars of hundreds of years ago the world would be at war constantly,
I think theres abit of difference between a conflict 30 years ago and 205-6 years ago, and remember we didnt even want the 82 falklands conflict , it was forced on to us by Argentina, i think if thats what Argentina is thinking then they need to let it go, as old enemies can become friends look at the UK we fought wars with france for 100s of years but we are at peace and are close friends and allies same with Germany these are just an example, the world has moved on,,,,,,,
Argentina as approached this totaly the wrong way ,Its tried to show its teeth when talking about it could of worked out better, But the UK will never back down to a bully not now not ever......

The sad but glaring truth is through every one on this thread has acted responsibly and used reasonable and logical arguments about this situation in the South Atlantic, this rational approach does not apply for this situation and will not work. The single issue that cannot ever be approached rationally and cannot be negotiated away reasonably is something deeper and completely irrational. And now I will tell you what it is.

Every nation, without exception, is composed of ideas which are in turn are composed partly of historical facts and partly of myths. There is no exception to this rule for any people or for any country at any time though many will do everything they can to deny that their national ideality is partly composed of nothing but myths. Some of the myths might even be positive in effect and represent something, that they as a people, wish to aspire to but just as likely it can be soothing negative such as an injustice that needs to be resolved differently next time.

In Argentina they have been telling their beautiful sweet innocent little children for generations that the islands are part of their country and that they have as a nation suffered a great injustice which will someday be corrected and then made right. They have not only adopted this myth into their national identity but into their personal identity’s as well. The things you first learn as a child are the things you build your own personal world view upon. The earlier you are taught that an idea is “an absolute undeniable truth” the more tightly you will hang on to that idea, thus becoming central to whom you are. For not to do so, threatens all that which you think you know and all what that you think you are. This is a place nobody wants to go.

The common reaction to anything that threatens your world view also threatens your ideality. People will go to extreme lengths to preserve the integrity of their ideality, and to keep their self-image whole and secure. Violence is not to be unexpected. No amount of reason or logic can persuade them to reexamine their core beliefs and why they have them, be they based upon facts or on myths if they are central enough. This is the most common of all human traits which have caused more unnecessary death and pain in the world than any other factor in all of human history.

It is very rare for anyone to ever gain sufficient insight or even to think that they need to, to cause them to reexamine their own ideality and then to reconstruct their ideality based on more rational precepts than those that are tolled to us as children. But even if you go through the effort there is no guarantee that you can successfully complete the process and become truly rational at all times and on all subjects.

The only solutions to the Falkland problem is for the Argentineans to stop passing on this myth to their children but I do not see that happing because Argentina has never suffered a disaster great enough to make them reexamine this core belief.

My God help us all.

 

[RobWilliams]

And today, very strangely, the Argentinian foreign minister waved a photograph of a submarine and claimed the Vanguard was in the South Atlantic.

I despair.

Of course, the UK has been called the 'aggressor' in this instance when AFAIK the sub which will be going to the Falklands is a Trafalgar class sub and NOT a Vanguard class.

I don't feel I need to point out the critical difference between those 2 submarines, but if the UK is the aggressor, why are the Argentinians throwing around wild claims about the UK deploying nuclear weapons in the area when they aren't?

It is truely bizarre, if there is one thing the UK would not do, it would be to deploy a Vanguard SSBN around the Falklands and allow the media to find out (i add the media point because nobody hear can truely say there isn't one nearby)

 

[Neutral Zone]

And today, very strangely, the Argentinian foreign minister waved a photograph of a submarine and claimed the Vanguard was in the South Atlantic.

I despair.

And of course Britain really would take a highly valuable strategic asset holding a high percentage of our nuclear deterrent and send it away from the well defended bastion areas it usually patrols in, into an area with little friendly support.

There's "Jumping the Shark" and then there's this.

 

[exPrivate]

OMG! The Brits are invading continental Argentina!
'UK wants to see if we are tempted to take arms,' Puricelli - BuenosAiresHerald.com
He obviously stopped the rose pills. :lol2

 

[RobWilliams]

OMG! The Brits are invading continental Argentina!
'UK wants to see if we are tempted to take arms,' Puricelli - BuenosAiresHerald.com
He obviously stopped the rose pills. :lol2

What an absolute joke.

The UK invade Argentina? Whatever he's on, I want some.

“We put up with that in Malvinas. But if they reach our continental territory we will exercise our exercise our legitimate right of defence and we have resources and skills to do so,” he warned.

Highly debatable at the very most.

 

[Astute]

Im sorry but i give up , the rubbish the Argentian goverment is coming out with is beyond a joke and to tell you the truth i cant laugh any more they must live in some sort of dream land, if a sheep loudly passed wind on the Falklands there would be a Argentine diplomat at the UN holding up a picture of a AS90,

 

[Armoured Recce]

This whole arguement that the Argies will take this to the UN is rediculous....

That nutered, toothless dog called the UN is wholely unable to deal with even legitimate issues...and reality is...NO 1st world country is going to give the Argie argument any credance at all.....Canada, the USA, Germany, France, Spain etc, etc, etc will very quickly realize that Argentina is wasting their time...they have NO legitimate claim to the islands...they can make up what ever retarded names for them they want...they are the FALKLAND Islands...they people their are BRITISH by decent and by choice....

If Argentina wants to really TRY and start issues.......well NATO bonds are tighter now than ever before.....the Argies may quickly find themselves sitting in an economic black hole...AGAIN...wondering what went wrong....they may end up with sanctions AGAINST them..then again.....the Argies really don;t have anything except canned corned beef anyway.........

It really reminds me of the " four eyed, glasses wearing, pocket protector using nerd" in grade school that gets "his dander" up and threatens to sue everyone and "charge" those that he sees as threats ( which is almost everyone as he is a weak, underfed, nerdy geek).....

Argentina may think that they are some kind of "Power house nation" in South America...BUT in reality they are a weak, overstuffed and egotistical 2nd rate country.....hell almost any country could militarily defeat the Argies......

No worries, no credible threat....just move along, nothing to see but the agonized throws of a dying "country"........

The Argies are much more adept at running "kidnapping" scams and petty crime IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY than being a world player.......

I won't cry at all for you Argentina...your bringing it on yourselves.......

The view from someone in a country NOT involved at all..............Not Brit and NOT Argie...........but a view being shared around the globe....

 

[jorgedr]

This whole arguement that the Argies will take this to the UN is rediculous....

That nutered, toothless dog called the UN is wholely unable to deal with even legitimate issues...and reality is...NO 1st world country is going to give the Argie argument any credance at all.....Canada, the USA, Germany, France, Spain etc, etc, etc will very quickly realize that Argentina is wasting their time...they have NO legitimate claim to the islands...they can make up what ever retarded names for them they want...they are the FALKLAND Islands...they people their are BRITISH by decent and by choice....

If Argentina wants to really TRY and start issues.......well NATO bonds are tighter now than ever before.....the Argies may quickly find themselves sitting in an economic black hole...AGAIN...wondering what went wrong....they may end up with sanctions AGAINST them..then again.....the Argies really don;t have anything except canned corned beef anyway.........

It really reminds me of the " four eyed, glasses wearing, pocket protector using nerd" in grade school that gets "his dander" up and threatens to sue everyone and "charge" those that he sees as threats ( which is almost everyone as he is a weak, underfed, nerdy geek).....

Argentina may think that they are some kind of "Power house nation" in South America...BUT in reality they are a weak, overstuffed and egotistical 2nd rate country.....hell almost any country could militarily defeat the Argies......

No worries, no credible threat....just move along, nothing to see but the agonized throws of a dying "country"........

The Argies are much more adept at running "kidnapping" scams and petty crime IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY than being a world player.......

I won't cry at all for you Argentina...your bringing it on yourselves.......

The view from someone in a country NOT involved at all..............Not Brit and NOT Argie...........but a view being shared around the globe....

you know, whatever differences we have here, most people made polite posts in the thread.
Whats the problem with you? While my country is not perfect is far from "dying"...
I'm not a big fan of my actual goverment and I will agree that they are doing a lot of useless noise at this moment but it does not reflects the thoughts of everybody here.
Nobody asked you to cry for us, let alone your meaningless post.
Yeah, we happen to have crime here, and is related to this thread as much as the London and Tottenham riots last year.
Really don't understand why so much hatred words in here.
I guess Brazil and other countries which share our view are not part of the globe...
Well is not the first time people think like that.

 

[Bonza]

Please try to keep it civil in here guys. I know it's an emotional topic for some, but myself and the other mods would appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Armoured Recce]

Nope , your wrong,

I have NO hatred.......BUT your Argie Government IS rattling sabres about something that Argentina has NO legal or historical right to...The Falklands Islands...

The countries in South America that have sided with Argentina are simply trading partners.....Brazil is totally corrupt and wouldn't / couldn;t effect any form of actual support....Paraguay and Uraguay don;t have anything to gain...but their misguided stance to stay in a good trading standing with Argenitna could land them in a situation that they may have serious issues with...economically.....

The WORLD is on edge enough with serious threats from genuine INSANE nations and their wing nut leaders like Iran and N. Korea...do we seriously need some two bit "Queen" of Argentina trying to ruffle feathers and start another issue?.......

Got news for you all...PROXIMITY to a country DOES NOT give it right to try and take it......look at Canada.we actually have French owned Islands right IN Canadian waters...do WE take them by force or try to force sanctions and bans on them?....Nope.......Do we take it to the UN?....nope.......so what gives Argentina the right to do or say anything?........NOTHING......

If I've offended your hotblooded latin sensabilities..then GOOD...why?...because it is apparent in recent history that the Argentinian Government is Incapable of running the country....and ran it to an almost unrecoverable level of anarchy. So IF most Argentinains DON;T support the Government and what is happening then perhaps YOU;d better wake up your countrymen...cause the path that YOUR being led down is a dangerous one..better oust your "queen" and her cronies and put a sensible leader in place...fast!

The Argentinain politicians...the self titled "Queen" and the retard that is serving as the Minister of Defense are spouting utter rubbish to the world's press...their retoric is borderline calling for an outright war.....therefore THEY are instigating a situation.

Bottom line is this....IF the Argentinians think that this time the US, Canada and any host of other nations will sit back and watch...they are liable to find themselves very suprised.......This time around...I'd bet apples to oranges there WILL be a US task force and other NATO forces involved.....do you really think that Brazil or any other south american nations will stand by Argentina when the odds stack that high against them?.......hell no.......

Now I certainly DON:T want to see any Argentinian people hurt...I don;t harbour any ill will or hatred towards them........BUT wake up and fix your Queen and cronies before your all going to war again......for a fairey tale........

Like I said......no ill will....no hatred........and I wish you all the best in the world.......but sorry........this time..I think the mood in the world and actual issues will play a big dividend and this Argentinian sobstory will be looked at what it is..a fairey tale fiction....

Good luck to you...stay safe and I hope the best for ya.......seriously.......it;s politics......and not personal.....

 

[jorgedr]

Nope , your wrong,

I have NO hatred.......BUT your Argie Government IS rattling sabres about something that Argentina has NO legal or historical right to...The Falklands Islands...

The countries in South America that have sided with Argentina are simply trading partners.....Brazil is totally corrupt and wouldn't / couldn;t effect any form of actual support....Paraguay and Uraguay don;t have anything to gain...but their misguided stance to stay in a good trading standing with Argenitna could land them in a situation that they may have serious issues with...economically.....

The WORLD is on edge enough with serious threats from genuine INSANE nations and their wing nut leaders like Iran and N. Korea...do we seriously need some two bit "Queen" of Argentina trying to ruffle feathers and start another issue?.......

Got news for you all...PROXIMITY to a country DOES NOT give it right to try and take it......look at Canada.we actually have French owned Islands right IN Canadian waters...do WE take them by force or try to force sanctions and bans on them?....Nope.......Do we take it to the UN?....nope.......so what gives Argentina the right to do or say anything?........NOTHING......

If I've offended your hotblooded latin sensabilities..then GOOD...why?...because it is apparent in recent history that the Argentinian Government is Incapable of running the country....and ran it to an almost unrecoverable level of anarchy. So IF most Argentinains DON;T support the Government and what is happening then perhaps YOU;d better wake up your countrymen...cause the path that YOUR being led down is a dangerous one..better oust your "queen" and her cronies and put a sensible leader in place...fast!

The Argentinain politicians...the self titled "Queen" and the retard that is serving as the Minister of Defense are spouting utter rubbish to the world's press...their retoric is borderline calling for an outright war.....therefore THEY are instigating a situation.

Bottom line is this....IF the Argentinians think that this time the US, Canada and any host of other nations will sit back and watch...they are liable to find themselves very suprised.......This time around...I'd bet apples to oranges there WILL be a US task force and other NATO forces involved.....do you really think that Brazil or any other south american nations will stand by Argentina when the odds stack that high against them?.......hell no.......

Now I certainly DON:T want to see any Argentinian people hurt...I don;t harbour any ill will or hatred towards them........BUT wake up and fix your Queen and cronies before your all going to war again......for a fairey tale........

Like I said......no ill will....no hatred........and I wish you all the best in the world.......but sorry........this time..I think the mood in the world and actual issues will play a big dividend and this Argentinian sobstory will be looked at what it is..a fairey tale fiction....

Good luck to you...stay safe and I hope the best for ya.......seriously.......it;s politics......and not personal.....

Why the thing about NATO and the US intervention over and over when the chance of war are zero?
let say there is no hatred here, why the despective words for us and the members or our goverment then?
your post is pretty full of insults coming from someone that wishes the best for me or us.
Check my other posts, you will see my thouhgts about the issue and how I stated them without insulting any minister or any "real" queen in Europe or any other country.

I will stop this here.

 

[Armoured Recce]

Well, I guess The President of Argentina called HERSELF a queen in the press......so it;s kind of all aver the international press now........so that's why i refered to her as the "queen".....

have you read any of the quotes from the Minister of Defence.....he;s totally out to lunch .so I guess in a democratic world....we CAN belittle their actions and words....does that directly effect my opinion of YOu as a person..nope......like I said Politics and politicians.......no matter were just do and say what they want.....they NEVER actually represent the opinions of the people..not here, not there.not anywhere......

So as you state if " the chance of war is zero"....then I guess this entire thread is redundant.

See, I guess the main issue is this...no one thought the chance of war was high the last time Argentina took the Falklands by force, no one believes that they won;t try again.....

I'm actually really sorry that you seem to equate disapproval of what your Government says and does to insulting you personally.

Perhaps Argentina really isn;t as democratic as is publically stated, perhaps you can;t voice disaproval with fear of reprisal, if that is the case then I;m sorry....

I really don;t see anything that I wrote that is "insultive" towards you......or the average people of Argentina.....

As has been mentioned over and over in the press and even here in the thread.....just because Argentinian children have been taught for decades that Los Malvinas is a part of Argentina, doesn;t make it so nor right.....that is NOT an insult to you.....just fact.....

As for NATO.....again that is fact......NATO exists.....Argentina is NOT a member, only an associate "ally"....IF an attack is made against the Falklands again, well by all rights the UK could request assistance from NATO. As well, It is a logical assumption that the NATO countries will in the very least condemn any agressive action by Argentina right?....especially now that Argentian has "enlisted" help from other south american countries too.

Reality is this.....a neighbourhood "bully" is only tough as long as he stays in his own "hood"....cause there is ALWAYS a bigger tougher guy somewhere....

Like I said and I will say again.....there is NO hatred or ill will towards you or your fellow countrymen......but your countries politics are a threat and are simply idiotic to push this issue...and it is a democratic ability to assess and speak out against such things that are the basis of democracy...thats not wrong.....

If you feel better than by all means insult any politicians or royalties you want.....I doubt anyone would be to insulted....

I find it kind of suprising that you are trying to come across as the "victim" in this debate....after all it is your nation that is stirring up the issue, it is your nation that has a history of instigating violence towards this issue.

I;m not insulting you at all......there is no direct attack towards you or your character, just a disaproval of your countries politics and stance on an issue that should NEVER have ever surfaced again.

You know, The Argentinian President's own statement about "having an Argentinian president go to los malvinas and visit the graves of the war dead within a decade" is such a loaded one it isn;t even funny....there would be NO war dead IF Argentina hadn;t invaded in the first place

Perhaps you shouldn;t take everything so personally......don;t act the inocent victim.....all I did was state an personal opinion based on historical fact and public record ( international press).....not attack you personally

anyway..I;ve said my piece......and really won;t say anymore........what happens happens..and the results will be the results.........

 

[Bonza]

Honestly Recce, if you can't see how your last few posts might come across as offensive to someone from Argentina, you're really not looking hard enough. If there were no malicious intentions then you might want to reconsider how you communicate your point. Just friendly advice.

And I must repeat what I stated earlier, everyone please keep it civil and to do your best as posters to steer the debate away from inflammatory, pointless arguments. They're neither constructive nor enlightening.

 

[StobieWan]

And of course Britain really would take a highly valuable strategic asset holding a high percentage of our nuclear deterrent and send it away from the well defended bastion areas it usually patrols in, into an area with little friendly support.

There's "Jumping the Shark" and then there's this.

Yep..


:facepalm: