F-20 Tigershark

[jaffo4011]

the f20 was primarily designed specifically for the taiwanese fighter requirement in the early eighties but when the u.s govt excluded taiwan from importing f.20's it had to go its own way abeit with a lot of help from northrop.this resulted in the 'aidc ching kuo' fighter used by taiwan today.
its a real mish mash of various u.s fighter designs but if you look at its nose you can see it's the f20's transplanted on.

so in reality a lot of the f20 still lives on,although taiwan only built around 130 aircraft after the u.s relaxed its export issues and agreed to supply them with block 20 f.16's

 

[Atilla [TR]]

And I saw a movie once where the USN fought MiG-28's... nfloorl:

Yeah but the book was non fiction fact book.

 

[Magoo]

The F-117 was going to be called the F-19, but for some reason they added it to the 'century series' list of designations instead.

The alternate version is that the Testors toy company got wind of a new secret fighter being developed in the early 1980s and automatically assumed it would be called F-19, as that was the next number after the F/A-18, so they marketed a model kit called the F-19 'Frisbee'.

Conversely, the USAF version of the Phantom, the F-4C was going to be dubbed the F-110 but reverted to F-4C before series production got underway. The F-110 designation was later used by MiG-21s that were 'acquired' by the USAF from Egypt, Israel, Iraq, Indonesia and others, and were tested at Groom Lake.

There's probably a whole other thread which could be done on US combat aircraft designations...

Magoo

 

[Magoo]

the f20 was primarily designed specifically for the taiwanese fighter requirement in the early eighties but when the u.s govt excluded taiwan from importing f.20's it had to go its own way abeit with a lot of help from northrop.this resulted in the 'aidc ching kuo' fighter used by taiwan today.
its a real mish mash of various u.s fighter designs but if you look at its nose you can see it's the f20's transplanted on.

so in reality a lot of the f20 still lives on,although taiwan only built around 130 aircraft after the u.s relaxed its export issues and agreed to supply them with block 20 f.16's

Actually, the Ching-Kuo IDF was developed with the assistance of General Dynamics and thus uses a lot of F-16 design influence, including the wing planform, rear fuselage shaping, canopy shape, and horizontal stabs. Otherwise, it is twin engined, has a LEX and low mounted side intakes.

There's no F-20 in it, except perhaps in the nose, but that's pushing it... and it's radar is a development of the original ALR-67 which was intended for the F-20.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/taiwan/images/idf-line.gif

 

[crobato]

The PLAAF (China) JF-17 has a uncanny resemblance to the F-20.

The JF-17 had its spiritual ancestor with the Super 7 project that Grumman was working for China before Tianammen happened. The Super 7 appeared resurrected in the form of the JL-9 aka FTC-2000 trainer made by one of China's smaller aviation firms.

Imagine a single seat version of this.

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/trainer/jl9.asp

The JF-17, by changing and raising requirements, evolved to an entirely new aircraft. Compared to the F-20, it is heavier, but it has much larger wing area, comparable to an F-16's while weighing lower than such. The specs of the JF-17 oddly enough, is almost dead even with the Ching Kuo.

 

[crobato]

Found out some interesting fact about the F-20 it was going to be called the F-5G, then they decided that that would make the generals think it was just a slighty modified F-5, then they thought F-13 but they decided not to because of the number 13, so they decided F-20 would fit the bill. I guess no matter what number the plane was still doomend could you upgrade F-5's to F-20 level that would be interesting.

F-5G was actually a concept F-5 with two engines---strangely enough, the same engines that ended up being used on the Ching Kuo IDF. General Dynamics certainly took a page from Northrop on that.

 

[crobato]

Another case of the military-industrial complex gone wrong. The F-20 would have been an ideal aircraft for many air forces who already had the training base with the F-5. However, substituting the more complex F-16 for the F-20 allowed the US to keep the F-16 production lines humming with aircraft for both the US and foreign nations, resulting in a lower unit price for the F-16s the U.S. Air Force/reserve forces needed. The bottom line is the bottom line.

The F-20/F-5/T-38 is an exceptionally good basic airframe, however, and has longevity many other aircraft manufacturers would envy. The U.S. Air Force continues to upgrade its T-38s and fly them heavily, with no plans for a replacement being seriously considered. I would personally love to see the T-38 remanufactured, perhaps in a scaled-down F-23 configuration to afford a degree of stealthiness, and offered again to smaller air forces as a trainer. The experience base with the F-5 and economy of operation added to the modernity of such a design would make it almost irresistable.

The concept wasn't sound after a certain TWR was reached, as the airframe did not have large wings. Which means high wing loading, and that means the potential for accidents. And yes, two prototypes crashed, that's not very impressive.

In the end, Taiwan adopting the Ching Kuo fighter (not related to the F-20 by the way except for the radar) probably saved a whole bunch of pilots' lives.

 

[AGRA]

There have actually been more than just the F-19 that was 'skipped'. There was no F-109 either... I would bet that the F-19 was actually reserved for the stealth fighter. But the decision to keep it an operational black aircraft meant the number couldn't be used so "F-117" was pulled from the hat for it, there were no F-112 to F-116s.

 

[Magoo]

There have actually been more than just the F-19 that was 'skipped'. There was no F-109 either... I would bet that the F-19 was actually reserved for the stealth fighter. But the decision to keep it an operational black aircraft meant the number couldn't be used so "F-117" was pulled from the hat for it, there were no F-112 to F-116s.

Well, I'm only a "spotter", but...

F-109 was 'reportedly' assigned to at least two aircraft, initially the F-101B Voodoo, and then later to the Bell D-188 supersonic VTOL fighter, two of which flew in the late 50s before the project was cancelled

The YF-112 was the MiG-19's designation, the YF-113 was the MiG-23's designation, and the YF-114 (I think) was the MiG-27's designation. There is also talk of there having been a 'YF-113G' which was supposedly a classified aircraft flown at Groom Lake in the early 90s, but this is just hearsay from a fellow 'spotter'.

Not sure about F-115 and F-116 - perhaps these were skipped to avoid confusion with the F-15 and F-16? The timing's about right.

Magoo

 

[swerve]

There have actually been more than just the F-19 that was 'skipped'. There was no F-109 either...

And a lot of more recent ones. F-35 should probably be F-25. But that's nothing to do with black projects, just some politician calling the X-35 the F-35 & it sticking, IIRC.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

And I saw a movie once where the USN fought MiG-28's... nfloorl:

Hey I saw that movie too, they used F-14s against the mig-28s. Say those Mig-28s look a lot like a F-5 now don't they.

 

[Salty Dog]

Hey I saw that movie too, they used F-14s against the mig-28s. Say those Mig-28s look a lot like a F-5 now don't they.

Probably the movie "Top Gun". In real life USN Fighter Weapons School "Top Gun" actually used F-5, A-4, and F-16 aircraft as aggressors.

 

[Tasman]

Hey I saw that movie too, they used F-14s against the mig-28s. Say those Mig-28s look a lot like a F-5 now don't they.

It seems that the F-5 has been the aircraft of choice by Hollywood, in the last decade or so, to simulate 'bad guys' fighters. I guess that calling them MIG-28s might have been an attempt to avoid annoying the Soviet Union (or alternatively it was just plain Hollywood ignorance). In the 1950s Hollywood used to use F-84F Thunderstreaks to simulate MIG-15s when making Korean War movies but at least they didn't call them MIG-16s!

Tas

 

[Atilla [TR]]

I thought they used RC planes boy waz i ever wrong.

 

[Creative]

Tigershark was one slick lookin' fighter. Too bad the odds turned out against it.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

Well instead they sold the F-16, and in the end it was better for my country and of course most others. But yeah it was not that bad looking.