F-20 Tigershark

[Atilla [TR]]

Have you guys have heard of this fighter? Well it was said to be the best fighter never bought. I know it is just an updated F-5 but how well was it because it was much more advanced and it had one engine that had 70 percent more thrust then the 2 engines on the F-5. From what i heard this fighter is not all that bad but a little to late because of the F-35.

 

[Salty Dog]

F-20 was a devlopment of the F-5 Freedom Fighter with significant changes and improvments. It had a single engine vice two. It was low cost like the F-5, but got nowhere for two main reasons. First, the USAF did not buy it, and 2nd the F-16 came into being. So, potential F-20 customers wound up purchasing the F-16.

 

[ROCK45]

F-20 Timing

Salty Dog you nailed it perfectly it's one of my favorite all time aircraft. Just bad timing for the reasons you mentioned and politics,it had promise. I attached a link just to share some history and basic information.


http://www.f20a.com/

 

[Todjaeger]

Have you guys have heard of this fighter? Well it was said to be the best fighter never bought. I know it is just an updated F-5 but how well was it because it was much more advanced and it had one engine that had 70 percent more thrust then the 2 engines on the F-5. From what i heard this fighter is not all that bad but a little to late because of the F-35.

The F-20 Tigershark is (was) indeed a development of the Northrup F-5 Tiger/T-38 Talon family, originally dubbed the F-5G, before being redesignated the F-20. AFAIK initial flight was achieved in 1982 and the designed was a private investment by Northrup to meet a US Government (Carter admin) request for a low-cost fighter to export to friendly and allied governments of the late 70's and early 80's. This was before the decision was made to open sales of the F-16 to such governments. Once that decision was made, then the F-20 program died, being terminated by Northrup in November of 1986.

Given the time frame, the F-20 was not 'late' rather it was a design that was in competetion with the F-16 which was in-service with the USAF (and the USN for aggressor training). Other countries, given the choice between a US design that was seeing service by the US, and another US design not in service, naturally enough chose the one in service.

Incidentally, the F-35 which began initial flight testing in October of 2000, is expected to replace the F-16 aircraft in the inventories of a number of foreign air forces.

-Cheers

edit: Wow, several responses while I was writing mine. Here is some additional information on the F-20 here.

 

[windscorpion]

It was a decent enough aircraft but born at the wrong time. I seem to recall it did get 1-2 small orders but not enough to justify starting production.

There was also a project for a "cheaper F-16" for export that floundered because the US started selling normal F-16s anyway. F-16/79 or something.

 

[Salty Dog]

I am sure the F-16 was more expensive than the F-20. However, the US sweetened the F-16 pot by overcoming some releasablity issues. co-manufacturing, etc. The rest is history.

I also recall back in the 1970's all the F-20 advertisements with Chuck Yeager.

 

[ROCK45]

F-20

One of the countries offered the F-16 with the J79 was Peru. Many factors help the F-16 become what it did and deserved to be, it was and is a great fighter. I remember reading somewhere where Iran agreed to purchase 80 Vipers which were never delivered. With the US Air Force already committed to the Viper and the Iranian order in the wings, the F-20 had no place. The US Air Force didn't want two fighters in basically the same class and the Viper could be sold for more so that's where the big money was. The US Air Force never wanted nor asked the fighter to be built and the higher powers to be were in the F-16 camp already.

I always thought it would have been a perfect aircraft for the South American market many years ago.

 

[vivtho]

As long as the US was holding back foreign sales of the F-16A/B, there was a lot of interest in the F-20 from several air forces (Taiwan and Brazil come to mind, but I could be mistaken). At the time the only F-16 variant available to foreign customers was the F-16/79 which was a F-16 with slightly inferior electronics and the J79 turbojet. The J79 was a lot less powerful than the F100 that the Viper was originally designed for. It also ran a lot hotter and required a heavy metal firewall around the engine that added a lot of weight. All this added up to an aircraft that offered only a marginal improvement over existing designs, but at a much higher cost. Unfortunately (for the F-20), the US changed it's policy and allowed foreign sales of the non-castrated variants of the F-16.

 

[eaf-f16]

I remember reading somewhere where Iran agreed to purchase 80 Vipers which were never delivered.

I don't think they were 80 F-16's. Iran ordered 150 F-16's with another contract for 150 more F-16's on the way.

 

[ROCK45]

order

Thanks eaf-f16 I knew there were early orders that help the F-16 program.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

Found out some interesting fact about the F-20 it was going to be called the F-5G, then they decided that that would make the generals think it was just a slighty modified F-5, then they thought F-13 but they decided not to because of the number 13, so they decided F-20 would fit the bill. I guess no matter what number the plane was still doomend could you upgrade F-5's to F-20 level that would be interesting.

 

[ROCK45]

Frame

I would assume some redesign of the aircraft would be needed since the single engine was larger and heavier. Balance of the aircraft might change as well as the air flow over the wings.

 

[vivtho]

Found out some interesting fact about the F-20 it was going to be called the F-5G, then they decided that that would make the generals think it was just a slighty modified F-5, then they thought F-13 but they decided not to because of the number 13, so they decided F-20 would fit the bill. I guess no matter what number the plane was still doomend could you upgrade F-5's to F-20 level that would be interesting.

BTW, this change is the sequence of designations was responsible for the conspiracy theories about the 'missing' aircraft F-19, which many assumed was the designation for a stealth fighter.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

I actually have a book that says that the USAF was coming out with a F-19 but I have never seen anything else that backs it up.

 

[alexsa]

I actually have a book that says that the USAF was coming out with a F-19 but I have never seen anything else that backs it up.

Off topic but you have to love conspiracy theories. This give a good rundown on the theories on the F-19 to date and I prefer the pennultimate line as the answer.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1304686

 

[Skyman]

F-20 was once in race against F-16A/B Block 15 in Thailand and finally the Falcon win. The reason is the same as Salty Dog had said.

 

[Salty Dog]

Jf-17 / Fc-1

The PLAAF (China) JF-17 has a uncanny resemblance to the F-20.

 

[Aussie Digger]

I actually have a book that says that the USAF was coming out with a F-19 but I have never seen anything else that backs it up.

And I saw a movie once where the USN fought MiG-28's... nfloorl:

 

[zimmerlip]

Another case of the military-industrial complex gone wrong. The F-20 would have been an ideal aircraft for many air forces who already had the training base with the F-5. However, substituting the more complex F-16 for the F-20 allowed the US to keep the F-16 production lines humming with aircraft for both the US and foreign nations, resulting in a lower unit price for the F-16s the U.S. Air Force/reserve forces needed. The bottom line is the bottom line.

The F-20/F-5/T-38 is an exceptionally good basic airframe, however, and has longevity many other aircraft manufacturers would envy. The U.S. Air Force continues to upgrade its T-38s and fly them heavily, with no plans for a replacement being seriously considered. I would personally love to see the T-38 remanufactured, perhaps in a scaled-down F-23 configuration to afford a degree of stealthiness, and offered again to smaller air forces as a trainer. The experience base with the F-5 and economy of operation added to the modernity of such a design would make it almost irresistable.

 

[Salty Dog]

The F-20/F-5/T-38 is an exceptionally good basic airframe, however, and has longevity many other aircraft manufacturers would envy. The U.S. Air Force continues to upgrade its T-38s and fly them heavily, with no plans for a replacement being seriously considered. I would personally love to see the T-38 remanufactured, perhaps in a scaled-down F-23 configuration to afford a degree of stealthiness, and offered again to smaller air forces as a trainer. The experience base with the F-5 and economy of operation added to the modernity of such a design would make it almost irresistable.

Perhaps this calls for market research. Imagine if the F-23 price tag could be kept under USD$ 10M per copy. A "Volksfighter" indeed!!