From my understanding they plan to retire there Growler's and SH's around the same time as us (or us the same time as them) in the 2030's so I dealt the USN would want our aircraft when they would litereally have them a couple year's before retiring them..
F-18 Advanced Hornet
- Thread starter Guynumber7
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they're not being kept. I suspect the last ones to go will be the Growlers, once lessons learnt from ewarfare operating with the E7's, P3's, Gulfs and JSF's are established.
original retirement was slated for 2025 and by that stage the UAS concept might be in play
unless they have other FMS customers who want to zero the frames I suspect that they'll go to the boneyard
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Whilst I'm sure the USN would love to have more F-35C's available when the time comes, but I suspect, from all that I've read over the last while, the Super Hornets and the Growlers may well be kept operational well into the 2030's and possibly beyond too.
And it may well be that the Super Hornets disappear from service first and the Growlers are there for the long term, the very long term.
So for Australia, it may come down to which 'path' do we follow? The USN with the Growler for EW or the USAF, which I understand is far more likely to use the F-35A's as an EW platform (unless some future 'unmanned' option comes to light).
Anyway, still a lot of time ahead of us (the Growlers aren't even in RAAF service yet!!), it may well be that a future Government takes advice from Defence, that we park the Growlers and have the F-35A's performing the EW role, or it may be that we follow the USN model, where the Growler might have a longer life.
Time will tell!!
the intent is to stay lockstep with the US program for Shornets and JSF -
"the minimum 2 version support" dance
there won't be any creative fleet work for RAAF.
all the hypotheticals popping up are wishful thinking ....
they're discovering new ways to fight, but that doesn't mean that we're getting new fleet structures
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Agree that we aren't going to go out on our own, but my questions is still, which path will we eventually follow?
The way I see it we have a foot in both the USAF camp and the USN camp, and it does appear to me, they aren't always on the same path.
The USN may well retire the Super Hornets earlier than later, and so may we, but if they continue to use the Growler in the EW role for many years to come and at the same time the USAF follows a different EW path, which path do we end up following?
Growler is going to get EW updates (IOC ~2020) before they start really focusing on the F-35 EW packages.
But still in 10 years at 2030 I would imagine the F-35 would have surpassed Growler.
F-35 is the future, certainly for the US. No one is planning otherwise. Its going to be *the* platform. Everything else will waste away as nothing new will be integrated on ancient platforms not suitable for the tech. It becomes more of a software solution anyway.
But still in 10 years at 2030 I would imagine the F-35 would have surpassed Growler.
F-35 is the future, certainly for the US. No one is planning otherwise. Its going to be *the* platform. Everything else will waste away as nothing new will be integrated on ancient platforms not suitable for the tech. It becomes more of a software solution anyway.
In a serious break down/war situation in the 2030's I would imagine the US would be open to us holding on to them for longer? Or is it part of FMS that they have to go no matter what?Gf said:
Nope, we're lockstep with the USN - not the USAF
possibly... but, look at the fitout of a growler and then try and work out where you can do the same thing on the JSF. you can do some of it with conformals or as hangers, but there is a tradeoff. turning JSF into an electronic Godzilla is a little way out yet. Its not just miniaturization issues
edit:
http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/after-the-f-35/
Future - not near future though. Conformal arrays etc are still yet to go gold
no, we'll just renegotiate.
we're only just discovering what the Growler can do and how it changes the battlespace...so there is a long way to go yet.
I know the sings muck around with their 16's and the israelis with the eagles, but I am really surprised that they haven't jumped in the queue
its a battlespace changer in its own right
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SpazSinbad
Active Member
RAAF Growlers in LockStep with USN Growler Upgrades
Here is a quote from 'former RAAF chief Air Marshal Geoffrey Brown':
Here is a quote from 'former RAAF chief Air Marshal Geoffrey Brown':
as I said prev - we will stay within the "2 version dancestep" with the USN - NOT the USAF
Boagrius
Well-Known Member
One wonders if F/A(XX) will arrive/produce a suitable platform in time for the fourth "batch" of airframes in AIR6000... My gut (perhaps unfortunately) says no...
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Attached is a link from the Ottawa Citizen suggesting that time is running out for a Canadian purchase of the Superhornet as Boeing will likely close the line in 2018 if no new orders are received by then. The article brings up the possible SH sale to Kuwait. I thought the the recent Kuwait order for Typhoons ended the need for a SH buy? Even if Kuwait placed an order this year it wouldn't keep the line open long enough for a Canadian purchase as this won't happen until junior's second mandate (post 2020 at the earliest).
Is time running out on a Canadian order of Boeing Super Hornets? | Ottawa Citizen
Is time running out on a Canadian order of Boeing Super Hornets? | Ottawa Citizen
While Kuwait did choose the Typhoon they have also stated even after the selection that they would still like to get the SH and if memory serves in about the same numbers.
If Canada want's in on the SH then they either have to speed up there acquisition process or may have to source them from India if the Indian's choose it (meant to be local production).
That all said with the air frame aimed at being retired in the 2030's across all current user's might be pointless for Canada to buy new build ones now, had it been done when Australia purchased her's then it would be a different kettle of fish.
If Canada want's in on the SH then they either have to speed up there acquisition process or may have to source them from India if the Indian's choose it (meant to be local production).
That all said with the air frame aimed at being retired in the 2030's across all current user's might be pointless for Canada to buy new build ones now, had it been done when Australia purchased her's then it would be a different kettle of fish.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I wonder if Boeing wants the frustration of dealing with Indian procurement? It sure hasn't been a happy experience for Dassault! Canada and India being involved in a defence procurement, that would be the epitome of fluster cuck. Hopefully the SH gracefully flies off to retirement and we get on with with the F-35.
Vulcan
Member
Split fleets are incredibly common, Euro options are increasingly become more popular in the Middle East. In some areas, there is a strong belief that the GCC are pushing towards a Middle East version of NATO with Saudi Arabia at the head.
USN future air wing
Vice Admiral Shoemake has had several talks and discussions about the make up of the carrier Air Wing of the future.
Basically it will be a combined wing of F35s, F18s, Growlers, Hawkeyes, and UCAVs.
The F35s lead the charge with EA and sensing. All info fused via NIFCA The F35s lead, F18s used a "bomb trucks" to provide additional capacity, all run via the new E2-D Advanced Hawkeyes. NIFCA will also fuse surface assets into the battle space sharing everything from Sensor to targeting information.
US Navy Details Future Carrier Air Wing | DoD Buzz
They're are other direct links to his lectures but this one was the easiest
Vice Admiral Shoemake has had several talks and discussions about the make up of the carrier Air Wing of the future.
Basically it will be a combined wing of F35s, F18s, Growlers, Hawkeyes, and UCAVs.
The F35s lead the charge with EA and sensing. All info fused via NIFCA The F35s lead, F18s used a "bomb trucks" to provide additional capacity, all run via the new E2-D Advanced Hawkeyes. NIFCA will also fuse surface assets into the battle space sharing everything from Sensor to targeting information.
US Navy Details Future Carrier Air Wing | DoD Buzz
They're are other direct links to his lectures but this one was the easiest
I guess that is the real question. Its highly likely that EW for the F-35 will be somewhat delayed, given they have focused on getting the growler upgrades done. I guess the question is how long. At which point the Growlers continue as the gap filler. Australia certainly doesn't have to worry about gaps.
Well the initial plan was it to have it earlier. So they might have been waiting for the F-35 delivery. With both of those choosing F-15's (and F-16) it puts them on a different plan.
In a round about way the Superhornets worked out pretty well for Australia.
the israelis do intend to field their own ewarfare version of JSF, I imagine that they and the US services will walk close to each other as it evolves
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Boeing's challenge isn't likely going to be successful and even if it is it, by the time the next RFQ happens there will be even more good news about the F-35. If the Danish military's choice gets derailed then they might go with Saab to spite Boeing.
http://www.defencetalk.com/boeing-challenges-denmarks-choice-of-fighter-jets-68174/
http://www.defencetalk.com/boeing-challenges-denmarks-choice-of-fighter-jets-68174/