F-16s no threat to IAF: Air Marshal Bhavnani

[Snauman]

December 14, 2004


F-16 fighter aircraft or not, the Pakistani air force cannot match the Indian Air Force, Commander-in-Chief of the Strategic Forces Command Air Marshal Ajit Bhavnani said on Tuesday.

"In conventional warfare capability, we are far ahead of our western neighbours,'' Bhavnani told newspersons in Kolkata when asked if Pakistan's acquisition of F-16s from the US will give its air force an edge over the IAF.

Air Marshal Bhavnani, who was in the city for the launching ceremony of the fast attack craft, 'INS Bitra', at the Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers premises, said 'concerted efforts' are being made to acquire the most modern and the best combat aircraft.

He said the Sukhoi-30 MKIs, now in possession of the IAF, are among the best in the world. Besides, the IAF also has Mirages and Jaguars.

''All these put together, we can't be matched. So, let them get what they want. We are confident that we can take on any one,'' Air Marshal Bhavnani said.

http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/dec/14iaf.htm

 

[Snauman]

OK NOW LISTEN IAF AIR MARSHAL :arrow:

PAF’s F-16 fleet was maintained at full operational readiness. Despite it belonging to the mid 1970 era technology, this wonderful machine is still a very potent weapon system and in the role of air defence, it can hold its own against all aircraft in the IAF’s inventory
Only the BVR missile capable IAF fleet will have an advantage over PAF’s F-16.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Only the BVR missile capable IAF fleet will have an advantage over PAF’s F-16.

Mig-21 Bison,Mig-29,Mirage-2000 and Su-30MKI all these fighters are BVR capable.
And the Missile they carry if AA-12 Adder which needs no introduction

OK NOW LISTEN IAF AIR MARSHAL

How he will listen,apparently he is not a member of this forum. : :

it can hold its own against all aircraft in the IAF’s inventory

I doubt against planes with BVR capability and powerful RADAR.But F-16 for PAF could be excellent air-defence Fighter.
Its not just Su-30MKI which would be counterpart of F-16 but also Mig-29,Mirage-2005 and Mig-21Bison (Upgraded Mig-21's with BVR Missiles)
so IAF also Numerical Superiority,BVR capability and also long range Fighters like Su-30MKI.
It becomes Difficult for F-16 to stop so many Fighters.

The advantage of IAF will become Half if PAF gets F-16's with AMRAAM and JF-17 with SD-10.
But still IAF would have upperhand becoz of Su-30MKI and Mirage-2005 which is due to be aquired.

 

[ajay_ijn]

I found an article on capability of F-16's

Intrusions into Indian air space like that of Purulia, where lethal armaments were dropped from an aircraft, without being detected early, while exposing gaping holes in the country's security, have led to a major review of alertness levels.
If a slow-moving civilian aircraft at Purulia could be allowed to have a free run of the Indian skies, couldn't a hostile military aircraft like the Pakistan Air Force's F-16 make a mockery of our defences, it could be asked.
Mumbai is particularly vulnerable because it is the economic lifeline of the country.
Are we really prepared for an enemy who has intention of bombing strategic installations like the oil rigs at Bombay High, the Tarapur Atomic power station and the Bhabha Atomic Research Centres reactors in Mumbai?
Going by what IAF officials say, yes, we are prepared for such possibilities.
"Sufficient measures exist to repel any hostile moves by the enemy" is the guarded response of a senior official at the headquarters of IAF's maritime operations in Mumbai.
"The PAF will not be allowed to come anywhere near," says a fighter pilot. "They will be as good as dead ducks."
No sooner than a F-16 or a Mirage V takes off for Mumbai from a Pakistani air base in Badin or Bahawalpur sensors and radars of the Southwestern and Western Air Command will pick it up.
A round-the-clock vigil is kept by fighter aircraft which move in a clockwise manner keeping Mumbai at the centre. Radars in forward bases supplement these surveillance systems and information picked up in these bases is fed almost immediately to air defence centres which activates the air squadrons in Jamnagar and Pune.
Meanwhile, naval guns and anti-aircraft systems are also turned on. Within minutes of the red alert having been sounded, Indian air force interceptors are scrambled.
However, will our early warning systems be equal to the F-16's lethal force multipliers which can jam radars?
The F-16 can fly a total distance of 1400 km, 700 km each way, in what is termed in military parlance as 'hi- low hi-low profile' flight.
It can carry 2,900 kg bombs and two Sidewinder missiles by its sides to protect itself from Indian interceptors.
Its first objective would be to avoid Indian radars. This is achieved by the plane first soaring to a very high level, and then dropping down to tree top height near the borders or over the Arabian Sea.
This done, the plane could drop a bomb while flying at a low level and then fly back to a high altitude, quickly shooting Sidewinders at Indian interceptors.
Apart from employing such tactics, it can also benefit from hi-tech gadgetry, which it can effectively use to outwit Indian radars. The jammers, which can jam any radar, are a major source of concern for the IAF.
The software is designed to cope with all frequencies used by every available anti-aircraft system and can be modified to meet any threat faced by an airborne plane.
The plane first flies close to the border hovering in the vicinity of the target. The radar deep inside Indian territory is then made ineffective while other aircraft move in for the kill.
The F-16 is also equipped with radar that can detect a low-flying enemy aircraft 55 km away. It an also release an air-to-air missile which has a speed of Mach 4 and anti jamming devices.
While the superior avionics of MiGs and the Sukhoi are not under dispute, the danger comes from the obsolescence of a large number of aircraft in the Indian Air Force.
Furthermore, not all of them can be positioned in the west, the area perceived to be under 'the maximum threat' as fresh perceptions of a Chinese threat have led to aircraft being deployed to the east.

F-16's Jamming Systems and its Sidewinder Missile will be a threat to Indian RADAR's and obsolescence aircraft in service of IAF.
However Indian Navy is looking to Induct some Su-30MKI for naval surveillance can Guard Mumbai against any F-16 coming via Arabian sea.

And the threat becomes Minimal when IAF gets Phalcon AWACS.
But the article made exaggeration about F-16's Bombing BARC,Nuclear reactors.
It is being said that two S-300 Missile Systems were defending BARC.

About the RADAR's,India has deployed GreenPine RADAR to track ballistic Missiles which can also track fighters.
Its detection range is 500km and Altitude 30km

 

[goodman]

The thing is that with the vast numerical advantage,IAF has the lead.It's every aircraft that can perform A-A role are much superior than what PAF has in it F-16s.

 

[srirangan]

Pak has had F16's for close to two decades, so it was always or never a threat. US selling Pak the F16's at this juncture is what India doesn't like. India isn't dumb, we don't underestimate Pak, Pak was bound to modernize at some stage or the other.

 

[insas556]

Media interviews like this are aimed more to cater to a public/domestic audience.

Real thinking is done behind closed doors.
India is not really worried about the number,but of the symbolism and change the transfer of a major offensive system like the F-16, would signify in Pak- US -India .

 

[P.A.F]

well if india thinks f-16s are no threat then why are they screaming and screaching over pakistan purchasing them???
and by the way the current fleet is about to get upgraded be lockheed martin :smokingc:

 

[adsH]

those F-16 HAVE RECIEVED slow but steady updates, local updates or foreign updates so they still are a threat to IAF but, IAF which obviously has SU-30mki is much more superior id say the current Pak F-16 are somewhere around third gen and IAF's SU-30mki is about 4-4.5 gen. but PAF has only there best flying the F-16 so the F-16 is still a threat. I doubt PAf would ever want to enter IAF territory unless it has to. it primary mission would be Air defense, we have to remid our selves during the last war Ariforces were not utlized for offensive operation, they merely kept each other away from each others Airspace.
oh and another thing
Russain Fighters have a higher Down time then Western fighters so i would say the French AC would probably be the only platform that would be able to maintain a uptime similar to F-16.

 

[ajay_ijn]

we have to remid our selves during the last war Ariforces were not utlized for offensive operation, they merely kept each other away from each others Airspace.

u have written "our" instead of "pakistan" but u have given your location as U.K.
Quite Confusing :? :? .

well if india thinks f-16s are no threat then why are they screaming and screaching over pakistan purchasing them???

From the Strategic point of view India does not like US giving offensive Platform to Pakistan while peace dialogue is going on.
But from capability point of view it does not matter for India if pak get F-16's or not.But it makes big difference if pak gets F-16 Block50 with BVR Missles.
Is Block50 having AESA RADAR?

by the way the current fleet is about to get upgraded be lockheed martin

To what standards,Can u give some info about it.

 

[adsH]

we remind "our" selves of the fact that in India and Pakistan, I'm british but my roots are pakistani. but here i was not implying that i am Pakistani.

 

[adsH]

From the Strategic point of view India does not like US giving offensive Platform to Pakistan while peace dialogue is going on.
But from capability point of view it does not matter for India if pak get F-16's or not.But it makes big difference if pak gets F-16 Block50 with BVR Missles.
Is Block50 having AESA RADAR?



To what standards,Can u give some info about it.

PAF fleet would receive Upgrades and Eight Additional block 15 with MLUs. MLU's Block standards would not apply since it would be based on PAF to how they are prepared to spend and what they can acquire. After MLU congressional approval PAF can put anything in the MLU as-long as Lockheed doesn't mind. PAF needs Congressional approval for F-16 if they get it (which they will) since the President is up for it and the house is republican. For Lockheed to build Block 40 would be harder and more expensive the standard for sale is Block 50+ to E/F which is Block 60. so anything in the middle is what PAF would most-likely go for.

 

[SABRE]

As far as I know PAF has designated its F-16 fleet as defenders & F-7PG as offensive force.
New F-16s may change the designation. But an other thing IAF must take in accord is that PAF is not trying to induct F-16s "Only". They r looking for upgrades of older ones & few new ones,as many believe around abt 18.
PAF is looking for some thing newer & better than F-16 thats what is going to be threat to IAF.
As long as PAF maintains F-16s as defenders IAF nothing to worry.

 

[adsH]

dude those 18-25 would be newer generation F-16 they have to get them, without new orders PAF won't get AIM-120, which they need with the Grippens if the US sells AIM-120 then SAAB can throw the Missiles inn with there Grippen.

 

[highsea]

As Insas said, these are political statements aimed at the public.

When Bhavnani said "...So, let them get what they want...", it made me think that Rumsfeld may have told them in this recent visit that the deal was going to be approved. So the public statement may be just a way of getting people in India "used" to the idea. Kind of a "meh, whatever, it doesn't matter to us".

 

[highsea]

...without new orders PAF won't get AIM-120, which they need with the Grippens if the US sells AIM-120 then SAAB can throw the Missiles inn with there Grippen.

adsh, it would also open the door for the Belgian F-16's which also have AIM-120's. Pakistan may be looking at those AC also to fill out the fleet.

 

[SABRE]

dude those 18-25 would be newer generation F-16 they have to get them, without new orders PAF won't get AIM-120, which they need with the Grippens if the US sells AIM-120 then SAAB can throw the Missiles inn with there Grippen.

SAAB throughing in missiles wiith Gripen is secondry question the primary question is, is SAAB or rather say Sweden throughing Gripen to us?

adsh, it would also open the door for the Belgian F-16's which also have AIM-120's. Pakistan may be looking at those AC also to fill out the fleet.

Yup ! PAF would like to get those surplus of Belgiun F-16s & make their own Surplus. When I said this here some time ago some one said its not going to happen & US wont allow that, they would want PAF to buy F-16s directly from them but I havent stop believing so far.
How good r Belgiun F-16s? What block r they using?

 

[XEROX]

Without being to impartial it is palpable to suggest that the IAF will beat the PAF in any conflict, in my own views I feel this – Why, because the Indian air force has an overall superiority - SU-30MKI with AA-12 Adder!!! , PAF should get its F-16, India shouldnt worry about jack!!!

 

[highsea]

How good r Belgiun F-16s? What block r they using?

Belgiums fleet consists of F-16A/B's, Block 10 and Block 15. All of the active AC have been rebuilt to block 15 standard and have been through MLU. I think about 40 are for sale.

They can handle AIM-120, AIM-9, AGM-65, LGB's and JDAM's.

More info:

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article2.html

 

[SABRE]

They can handle .......... JDAM's.

I saw on FOX News that USAF tested JDAMs for the 1st time on a battle ship quite recently. I just got to watch the ending of the report.
What was its status in the end, what was the result of JDAM?