EW Attack on USS Donald Cook

[Todjaeger]

What a load of crap. Modern warships are hardened against EMP. They have to be. They are designed to operate on a nuclear battlefield. Besides, if a system is shut down , it can simply be rebooted.

Umm... No, not quite.

Some of the systems which can be used for EW, specifically EA (electronic attack) can damage targeted electronic systems.

A targeted radar or radio transceiver, which suddenly developed microscopic cracks (as a result of an EMP or EA) in portions of the array, or processing electronics, or even the cabling between the transceiver and the displays, cannot "simply be rebooted" and have it return to normal operations.

Besides, having to 'reboot' a system while in mid-flight can be quite problematic. Having to reboot a FBW system for an aircraft in-flight can easily cause the loss of aircraft and possibly pilot.

 

[t68]

Umm... No, not quite.

Some of the systems which can be used for EW, specifically EA (electronic attack) can damage targeted electronic systems.

A targeted radar or radio transceiver, which suddenly developed microscopic cracks (as a result of an EMP or EA) in portions of the array, or processing electronics, or even the cabling between the transceiver and the displays, cannot "simply be rebooted" and have it return to normal operations.

Besides, having to 'reboot' a system while in mid-flight can be quite problematic. Having to reboot a FBW system for an aircraft in-flight can easily cause the loss of aircraft and possibly pilot.

If a vesse came under EW attack to such a degree would CEC still have the ability to use the weapons on that particular vessel?

 

[T1Brit]

Are you serious?

A modern warship can be disabled by an electro magnetic pulse? There is shielding against such radiation. Can an EMP weapon pass through a wall of lead? Do US destroyers not have such shielding? And do they not have redundancy? Systems which can take over from damaged systems?

 

[StobieWan]

EMP can travel down antennae so wrapping the relevant systems in some sort of shielding isn't going to be terribly practical. There are methods of hardening electrical systems against EMP attack, and ironically, some older systems are less vulnerable (valve based electronics for instance, are quite a bit tougher than microchips for simple physical reasons)

The report of the disabling of the ship is bogus for all sorts of reasons however, and those have already been discussed.

 

[Todjaeger]

A modern warship can be disabled by an electro magnetic pulse? There is shielding against such radiation. Can an EMP weapon pass through a wall of lead? Do US destroyers not have such shielding? And do they not have redundancy? Systems which can take over from damaged systems?

EMP's can potentially be of different strengths. They are also rather difficult to generate, so while designs can be made to shield against them (and indeed, military systems are hardened to a degree) much is going to depend on where the EMP occurred, and of what strength/intensity.

Also the term 'mission-kill' exists for a reason. Redundancy does tend to exist in military platforms, to a degree that is feasible and practical. Using an Arleigh Burke-class DDG as an example, they tend to mount four SPY-1 panels, one each facing forward, aft, port and starboard. Rendering any of the panels inoperative would likely result in a 'mission-kill' since any least one quarter of the ship's facing is now effectively blind. Or alternately, if the magnetron(s) which is used to generate the signals transmitted by the panels fails, then the whole system basically fails.

Also worth noting, in the event of a damaging EA or EMP, multiple systems are likely going to be impacted, since shielding external arrays is basically ineffective/impossible. In order for most of the various electronic sensors and communications systems to be functional, at least part of them need to be exposed so they can emit or receive signals. In order to shield or harden something vs. EMP, then either material is needed to block the EMP, or ground out/redirect the pulse. Unfortunately, for something like a radio aerial which needs to be able to send and receive signals, if it is shielded from an EMP, then it is also shielded from the RF radiation needed to receive a radio signal. By extension, it would also be contained in such a way that any RF radiation the aerial would be trying to send out would also be contained.

Now EMP and EA, and some of the related direct energy technology is not the end-all, be-all since they are difficult to create and especially weaponize, but they absolutely have potential. Particularly since they can be used to degrade much of the technology which a force can use to enhance it's capabilities.

 

[gazzzwp]

Such a lot of concern is being raised about this new Russian EW technology, but as usual it is difficult to discern exactly what is scaremongering, propaganda, or reality.

Huge concern has definitely been raised by certain sources regarding the communications black out that the Ukranian forces experienced when the Russians apparently booted up their new Khibiny system.

Apparently the same thing has occurred in Syria and the Russians have allegedly created a dead zone where jet radars and comms equipment do not function. The system apparently provides a satellite cloak. Military experts are making their concerns felt and apparently the US armed forces have recently been conducting extensive tests on home soil in order to test out any weaknesses in their radar systems and to find counter measures to EW technology.

Just like the alleged USS Donald Cook incident two Israeli jets are alleged to have experienced the capabilities of the Russian system when they flew into the protected zone and lost all radar and comms only to be then warned by the Russians to leave immediately.

The web is now rife with claims that the Russians have taken a huge leap ahead in EW capabilities and that it has got NATO very concerned. The claims are that there is no similar capability anywhere in the world and so far NATO do not understand the technology involved.

So it would be interesting to see how much of this can be corroborated and what the implications are. I have a few questions:

1) If the claims are true then how is that Russia systems still function in such a protected zone?

2) Have US or the coalition stayed out of the protected zone in Syria since the system became active?

3) Do the US possess a similar capability?

4) Is the technology really a 'game changer' as some on the internet claim? Does it really render much of NATO's attacking and defensive forces useless?

 

[StobieWan]

I think we can easily conclude that if the Russians had anything like the stated capabilities, they'd have kept it close to their chests.

In terms of the US and allied ships staying out of the area, in fact the Cook has been in and out of that area several times since the alleged incident and numerous other ships have sailed in and around the space implicated, so the claim that the Cook left the area and didn't return simply isn't true.

I'm not buying it, put it that way.

The US does have a couple of radars with an electronic attack capability which might be able to swamp an aircraft radar but the SPY-1D is a monster radar with a peak output of 4MW - that's enough to power a small village and I don't think you'd be able to tackle that with a wind generator powered pod hung off a strike fighter.

 

[Todjaeger]

Apparently the same thing has occurred in Syria and the Russians have allegedly created a dead zone where jet radars and comms equipment do not function. The system apparently provides a satellite cloak. Military experts are making their concerns felt and apparently the US armed forces have recently been conducting extensive tests on home soil in order to test out any weaknesses in their radar systems and to find counter measures to EW technology.

Just like the alleged USS Donald Cook incident two Israeli jets are alleged to have experienced the capabilities of the Russian system when they flew into the protected zone and lost all radar and comms only to be then warned by the Russians to leave immediately.

The web is now rife with claims that the Russians have taken a huge leap ahead in EW capabilities and that it has got NATO very concerned. The claims are that there is no similar capability anywhere in the world and so far NATO do not understand the technology involved.

So it would be interesting to see how much of this can be corroborated and what the implications are. I have a few questions:

1) If the claims are true then how is that Russia systems still function in such a protected zone?

2) Have US or the coalition stayed out of the protected zone in Syria since the system became active?

3) Do the US possess a similar capability?

4) Is the technology really a 'game changer' as some on the internet claim? Does it really render much of NATO's attacking and defensive forces useless?

I could be mistaken, but the claims IMO do not pass the "sniff test," if you will.

The point of such a system is to blind, deafen, and mute someone, so that cannot see, hear, or say something about what is being done in an area. Aside from Russian and Assad's Syrian forces, the only forces in the area which operate advanced gear are NATO members and Israel. This leads to either, what is Russia doing against Assad's enemies that it does not wish the other powers to see, or why is Russia revealing a previously unknown strategic capability?

Keep in mind that with Russian gear operating in-theatre, it would be foolish to not think that NATO and allies have harvesters operating/observing in the area, to gather as much ELINT/SIGINT as possible.

There is also the little matter of how Israeli fighters would be warned to leave an area while the jamming is occurring which is interdicting their comms...

 

[ASSAIL]

I could be mistaken, but the claims IMO do not pass the "sniff test," if you will.

There is also the little matter of how Israeli fighters would be warned to leave an area while the jamming is occurring which is interdicting their comms...

Flashing light, just like they did with the Fairy Swordfish! It all sounds a bit Steven Spielberg to me.

 

[t68]

Flashing light, just like they did with the Fairy Swordfish! It all sounds a bit Steven Spielberg to me.

More like Tom Clancy and the caterpillar drive

 

[StobieWan]

Let's file this under "Plasma Stealth" under the heading "Russia:STRONG" eh?

 

[surpreme]

Such a lot of concern is being raised about this new Russian EW technology, but as usual it is difficult to discern exactly what is scaremongering, propaganda, or reality.

Huge concern has definitely been raised by certain sources regarding the communications black out that the Ukranian forces experienced when the Russians apparently booted up their new Khibiny system.

Apparently the same thing has occurred in Syria and the Russians have allegedly created a dead zone where jet radars and comms equipment do not function. The system apparently provides a satellite cloak. Military experts are making their concerns felt and apparently the US armed forces have recently been conducting extensive tests on home soil in order to test out any weaknesses in their radar systems and to find counter measures to EW technology.

Just like the alleged USS Donald Cook incident two Israeli jets are alleged to have experienced the capabilities of the Russian system when they flew into the protected zone and lost all radar and comms only to be then warned by the Russians to leave immediately.

The web is now rife with claims that the Russians have taken a huge leap ahead in EW capabilities and that it has got NATO very concerned. The claims are that there is no similar capability anywhere in the world and so far NATO do not understand the technology involved.

So it would be interesting to see how much of this can be corroborated and what the implications are. I have a few questions:

1) If the claims are true then how is that Russia systems still function in such a protected zone?

2) Have US or the coalition stayed out of the protected zone in Syria since the system became active?

3) Do the US possess a similar capability?

4) Is the technology really a 'game changer' as some on the internet claim? Does it really render much of NATO's attacking and defensive forces useless?

Don't be fooled from the media NATO/U.S. has EW capability it just caught them off guard that Russia has gotten this ability. Like I said before in another forum both Russia, NATO, U.S. and Israeli are doing there jobs as we speak. The general public with not know the release of this information from all the players involved. EW is not a easy game to play so all parties involved trying to learn this new Russia EW also Russia trying find out in a hot zone what it can do also. All parties trying to get as much info it can on each other. Not in my wildest dream I would never have expect this to happen where so much tech is in one area. It's not a game changer it just NATO/U.S. has adjust to what going on. Also Russia has see if it EW can stand up to Israelis, NATO, and U.S.. Like I said on other forum this will be interesting how it plays out. HAVE ANY U.S.MILITARY OFFICALS TOLD THE PUBLIC THAT THE USS DONOLD COOK HAD A BLACKOUT. I haven't heard this before highly unlikely this happen to a U.S. Navy ship.


PS U.S. has tricks up it selves so don't believe the media when it come to EW

 

[AegisFC]

HAVE ANY U.S.MILITARY OFFICALS TOLD THE PUBLIC THAT THE USS DONOLD COOK HAD A BLACKOUT.

Thanks for that. I have not laughed so hard in a very long time.