Eurofighter Typhoon's First flight with caesar AESA Radar
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Grand Danois
Entertainer
Not really. Could easily be me not typing everything out.Aaaaah, now I understand.
I should read more carefully the next time.
Oh god, not that hoary old myth again . . .
France is a full member of NATO, & has been since NATO began. It pulled out of the integrated military command (not a requirement of membership) in 1966, but remained a member of NATO & all its other structures. It kept liaison officers in the integrated command, & carefully co-ordinated its forces deployments & plans with the integrated command & other NATO members. There were formal agreements about how French units would operate with the integrated command.
In 1993, France rejoined the integrated command.
Not really, never eared or read anything from Dassault or the GIE on the subject, they just do what the gouv and the DGA are requiering, they do not conduct the procurement policies in France....
I'ts political and mainly tactical from our head of staffs who assesed their performances and gave the results to the Assemblee Nationale earings.
That's the whole point and there were NO deletions, only funding shift from one batch to the other to free the necessary Euros for the Roadmap.
Further more there were more than the absence of AESA against the Rafale perhaps a diferent SPECTRA (or different defense suite all together) as well as the absence of OSF. The performances of the RBE" PESA weren't the main problem.
This is NOT the Eurofighter program, the post F-4 standard is already FULLY funded.
You r analysis is wrong and couterdict that of our AdA special;ists as well as that of the Industry.
Since they conducted the R&D for both technologies in parralel, why should they take the risk of loosing one opportunity to develop the GaAs when it is actually the second (or first) option they already invested in?
It is obvious that GaN offers a far greater developement and growth potential than GaAs and if the technology is ready they will use it, for the time being there have been TWO different R&D programs and they are pursuing BOTH solutions, wisely.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
That's what I mean when I say company speak.
In this case i concur.
But you know the Assemblee twend to grill the Industrial quiet BAD, they cant really dictate their will or spin their way around, it's a crime and corruption (as far as where national weapon procurements goes) is a no go, it would be regarded as anti-national if you see what i mean...
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Didn't have time to comment on the rest... Again. Two solutions have according to you been developed and will be ready for production at roughly the same time. Yet the sub-optimal solution is to be fielded - why? Because it is the "first thing they invested in, so that's what has to be fielded first...?"
That would be exactly my question... I don't understand this either.
No deletion took place, the total number of Rafale is still the same, only the tranche in order was "amputated" of 8 airframes and these reported to the following tranche.
YOU insist into interpreting our head of STAFF comments...
EXTRACT: Ainsi, un radar air-air à plus long rayon d'action est destiné à pallier pour certaines aviations l'absence d'Awacs, ou encore une furtivité moindre du fait de l'absence de capteurs OSF ou de systèmes d'autoprotection comme le Spectra.
Audition du général Richard Wolsztynski, chef d'état-major de l'armée de l'air, sur le projet de loi de finances pour 2006 (n° 2540)
CONSTITUTION DU 4 OCTOBRE 1958
ONZIÈME LÉGISLATURE
Enregistré à la Présidence de l'Assemblée nationale le 11 octobre 2000.
AVIS
PRÉSENTÉ
AU NOM DE LA COMMISSION DE LA DÉFENSE NATIONALE ET DES FORCES ARMÉES(1),
SUR LE PROJET DE loi de finances pour 2001 (n° 2585)
TANSLATION: So a longer ranged air-to-air radar is meant to compensate for the absence of AWACS in the case of some Air Forces, or even a lower stealthiness due to the absence of OSF or the auroprotection system like SPECTRA.
-----It is taken within the contest of the failure in the export of Rafale and these comments were made by général Richard Wolsztynski, AdA Head of Staff...
Quote: Waylander "If a customer needs to spend extra money for final integration of weapons like AIM-120, AIM-9, several bombs, etc. this could be part of the reasons for the export problems."
Another quote: "_ Par ailleurs, certains des développements proposés pourraient profiter un jour aux appareils français."
TANSLATION: By the way, many of the proposed developpement MIGHT beneficiate one day to the French (in French service) aircrafts.
Grand Danois Quote:
Originally Posted by BKNO
Not really, never eared or read anything from Dassault or the GIE on the subject, they just do what the gouv and the DGA are requiering, they do not conduct the procurement policies in France....
Further more there were more than the absence of AESA against the Rafale perhaps a diferent SPECTRA (or different defense suite all together) as well as the absence of OSF. The performances of the RBE" PESA weren't the main problem.
Since they conducted the R&D for both technologies in parralel, why should they take the risk of loosing one opportunity to develop the GaAs when it is actually the second (or first) option they already invested in?
It is obvious that GaN offers a far greater developement and growth potential than GaAs and if the technology is ready they will use it, for the time being there have been TWO different R&D programs and they are pursuing BOTH solutions, wisely.
Not exactly at the same time.
Thales have been working at GaAs for ages, the first contract for such a radar was passed by DGA At F'borough airshow in 2002 or so and a demondtrator was flown two years later, its technology was based on US GaAs.
The GaN program is schedule to provide with industrialy viable GaN componnents by 2010, weither the optimised European GaAs tecnology is already been flight tested and is industrialisable from today.
The goal for the GaAs was production ready at least two/three years earlier than what the GaN would allow for s othere is a time gap but it doesnt mean that in 2012 the GaN aerial wouldn't be a viable solution.
Thales have the choice and it will be made on the basis of the results, there is NO point in investing into an expensive upgrade if what DGA is paying for is becoming outdated after 5 years of service...
I think the Eurofighter consortium are more than aware of this and will eventually act upon these facts come decision time...
Onkel
New Member
Now that Gripen flies with an AESA Radar- what about Caesar? Something new?
O.k., found it myself: "Moreover, a study to fit an active electronically scanned array radar on the fighter is due to be completed this year. That will help define a suitable upgrade roadmap. Although Casolini says “the technology is mature,” he suggests that fielding such a radar before 2013 would be difficult"
source: Aviationweek 2009
O.k., found it myself: "Moreover, a study to fit an active electronically scanned array radar on the fighter is due to be completed this year. That will help define a suitable upgrade roadmap. Although Casolini says “the technology is mature,” he suggests that fielding such a radar before 2013 would be difficult"
source: Aviationweek 2009
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Onkel
New Member
I do, mate. Two years have passed and while Saab is offering its Gripen with an Aesa Radar, having its maiden flight a few days ago, Typhoon needs 3 more years, having its maiden flight two years ago. Intereting, isn´t it?
Wrong comparison, mate. The Typhoon date is deliveries of production aircraft to squadrons, if a decision to proceed is made now. In the case of Gripen, the decision to proceed was made some time ago, & deliveries of production aircraft to squadrons are still a few years away. The differences are due to different political environments.
Note that the main (with different partners) radar supplier is the same in both cases: Selex.
Note that the main (with different partners) radar supplier is the same in both cases: Selex.
Onkel
New Member
O.k.: That means, technically could Typhon be delivered AESA-equipped as soon as Gripen if the customer so wished....
Scorpion82
New Member
If there is some consistency beside the partner nations yes. A decision on that is yet awaited and representives say that if a decision is made this year they will be able to deliver an AESA solution on time of the start of T3A deliveries.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Damn it seems these old Eurocanard threads have been popping up plenty lately!
yes, it's worse than weed
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Old habits die hard hey mate?yes,there really should be dedicated forums for less advanced 'non eurocarnard' or less manoueverable'american' aircraft types ozzy....just to keep you happy