Colombia buys 24 Israeli fighter jets

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ROCK45

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Colombia buys 24 Israeli fighter jets
ed, 06 Feb 2008 19:42:40
A Kfir Jet fighter
Amid mounting tensions between Colombia and Venezuela, Colombian defense minister announces the purchase of 24 Israeli fighter jets.

Colombia's Defense Minister Juan Manuel Santos made the announcement after meeting with Israeli War Minister, Ehud Barak.

"There is an agreement to buy 24 renovated Kfir fighter planes from Israel, whose construction has already started. And the planes will be delivered at the start of next year," Santos said.

In his visit to Israel the Colombian minister also held meetings with senior military officials as well as Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert.

Kfir aircraft is a multi-purpose all-weather fighter jet, mainly used by the United States Navy.

Link
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=41986&sectionid=351020703
 
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ROCK45

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Your view

I'm a big fan of the old Mirage series and follow all the armed forces of South America so it's not a turd. Maybe when I get more post's I can be a senior member like you.
 
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merocaine

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Well if that order goes through that more than doubles the Columbian Fighter inventory. And would seem to be a direct response to Venezuela's new jets.
Things look like there getting interesting.
If Venezuela insists on continuing to shelter (and alledegedly aid) FARC Gurillas
there is plenty of reasons for the two to come to blows.
 
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ROCK45

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Between the lines

I agree it would more then double there fleet size and you bring in an aircraft already used and supported. I'll be interested in what goodies are included there might be more here then meets the eye. Since Venezuela is thorn in the US side and the engine in the Kfri is American made the US had to give its approval maybe other types will followed? Doesn't Israeli have ACE upgraded A/B Vipers for sale, maybe this is just the first step down that path? Weapons used on the Kfir could be used on the Israeli Vipers as well, I see one following the other in time. The US would give it's approval because Chavez is so loved.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
:D
 
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Gryphon

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Kfir aircraft is a multi-purpose all-weather fighter jet, mainly used by the United States Navy.
Click to expand...
The Kfir (designated F-21) was used by the the US Navy as "Aggressor" aircraft for Topgun (2 squadrons), but they never in an actual combat role. I think they were even leased then.

The "main" operator of the Kfir was/is Israel although Ecuador was an export customer as well.
 
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Ozzy Blizzard

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By modern standards the Kfir isnt very capable, AFAIk they are only equiped for WVR fihgt's with Python 3 & 4. JF-17 would have been a better idea but perhaps the Kfirs were even cheaper, pluss there was probably weapons and logistical issues? The Kfirs should be usefull for COIN work as they are quite capable strikers. Anyway its pretty much on par with the threat level down there (i.e. competeing platforms) therefore its probably a good choice.

merocaine said:
Well if that order goes through that more than doubles the Columbian Fighter inventory. And would seem to be a direct response to Venezuela's new jets.
Things look like there getting interesting.
If Venezuela insists on continuing to shelter (and alledegedly aid) FARC Gurillas
there is plenty of reasons for the two to come to blows.
Click to expand...
Doubleing the size of your force structure definatly points to an increase in tentions locally. We may be looking at a new leg in the regional arms race down there?
 
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ROCK45

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Better then nothing

They did get a little action in the 1982 war but not much. Ozzy Blizzard you may have a point it could cause say Ecuador to go shopping a little which in turn would make Peru go shopping. For Colombia they needed to build up there air force a little and they picked a aircraft that they already know and have. Most likely have a decent size pilot pool to draw from and maintenance already in place so on. The C-7s, I think had a EL-2030 radar which isn't bad not sure if Israel is offering anything better. It's going to get more pilots stick time and lift there levels a little which is something Colombia need as far as fast movers go. Its a safe first step and I really think more will follow and within three years time too. I'm thinking used Israeli Vipers and then maybe a US Government aide package of new F-16s added onto the production lines to keep them open longer.

Did anybody catch what weapons came with the Venezuela Flanker deal? Thanks
 
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onslaught

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I can't find anything on any weapons for the Flanker deal. It'll be kinda interesting to see them try to put their Sidewinders onto their Su-30 but that's not going to happen. The closest thing to air defence weapons that I can think of that Venezuela bought were some Tor M1's but why would they buy fighter jets without weapons? I actually read somewhere that Venezuelas fighter jets were primarily armed with just their machine guns?
 
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Aussie Digger

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Ozzy Blizzard said:
By modern standards the Kfir isnt very capable, AFAIk they are only equiped for WVR fihgt's with Python 3 & 4. JF-17 would have been a better idea but perhaps the Kfirs were even cheaper, pluss there was probably weapons and logistical issues? The Kfirs should be usefull for COIN work as they are quite capable strikers. Anyway its pretty much on par with the threat level down there (i.e. competeing platforms) therefore its probably a good choice.
Click to expand...
They are an old design, true, but are being refurbished by Israel prior to delivery.

That is a fairly ambiguous statement and if equipped with a modern Elta FCR package (EL/M-2032 or 2052 if you can afford an AESA system), modern Derby and Python AAM's, a modern HMS system and weapons package, could prove a very credible fighter option for Countries with relatively limited funding available.

IAI seem to think the same, having developed the Kfir 2000 upgrade package:

http://www.iai.co.il/Default.aspx?docID=22950&FolderID=17866&lang=EN&res=0&pos=0&btl=1

Whilst probably not the "equal" of the SU-30's individually, this doesn't mean that the Colombians could not develop a credible fighter capacity using this aircraft and I'd back the Israeli's to provide the better operational support...
 
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ROCK45

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El/m-2032

If equipped with the EL/M-2032 and armed with Python/Derby missiles it should serve they purpose for a while. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Ecuador lean just a little bit toward Venezuela? Do you think this might start a mini spending spree? Would Ecuador start looking around for some newer aircraft since Colombia pick up 24? I thought I read where China might take over the American base that the US forces use in Ecuador? Something about not allowing a new lease and US forces leaving in 2009? Maybe some FC-1 I'm sure China would like to break into the South American market, I know that slim but one never knows. Ecuador does produce 500,000 barrels of oil a year I remember reading somewhere that there trying to join OPEC and become the lowest producing member. There used to be poster on another forum from Ecuador and he mention there Mirage F1 are all in storage and there Kfir's are there main and only fighter. To be honest I don't know that to be fact or current maybe somebody here knows what state Ecuador's air force is in.
 
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Aliph Ahmed

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Gryphon said:
The Kfir (designated F-21) was used by the the US Navy as "Aggressor" aircraft for Topgun (2 squadrons), but they never in an actual combat role. I think they were even leased then.

The "main" operator of the Kfir was/is Israel although Ecuador was an export customer as well.
Click to expand...
Sri Lanka was also exported a few Kfirs. They were subjected to tamil suicide attacks and a few were destroyed as well. Not sure how many are still available to them.
 
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ROCK45

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Kfir users

Colombia was already a user which is why it made sense for them and most likely could afford. Does anybody recall Chile buying a few, I'm not seeing them listed anywhere? Back in time when Israel was upgrading the F-5 II/III? Maybe I'm confusing Israel offering to do work on there Mirage 5/50s. If anybody knows thanks.
 
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contedicavour

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I'm not sure buying some old though refurbished Kfirs with no BVR capability would change anything against SU30s with R73 and R77s...
Since Colombia is such a vital ally for the US in Latin America why on earth aren't they transferring some F16MLUs from the ANGs with AIM120A/B ?? That would be a low cost way of sending a message to Caracas. Anything less would be off the mark.
Unless the Kfirs are used in COIN against FARC but they aren't really fighterbombers suitable for that role...

cheers
 
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Aussie Digger

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contedicavour said:
I'm not sure buying some old though refurbished Kfirs with no BVR capability would change anything against SU30s with R73 and R77s...
Since Colombia is such a vital ally for the US in Latin America why on earth aren't they transferring some F16MLUs from the ANGs with AIM120A/B ?? That would be a low cost way of sending a message to Caracas. Anything less would be off the mark.
Unless the Kfirs are used in COIN against FARC but they aren't really fighterbombers suitable for that role...

cheers
Click to expand...
Who knows? Who says they won't be BVR capable anyway? Israel has a "nasty" habit of keeping secrets and I'd hate to be the over-confident SU-30 pilot who suddenly finds a Derby going "active"...

In anycase they are certainly a "latent" BVR capable fighter with a Python/Derby purchase, being the only requirement given the basics are already in place in the "2000" variant...

Throw in a DASH HMS and Python 5 on top of Derby and they'll be a handful...
 
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contedicavour

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
Who knows? Who says they won't be BVR capable anyway? Israel has a "nasty" habit of keeping secrets and I'd hate to be the over-confident SU-30 pilot who suddenly finds a Derby going "active"...

In anycase they are certainly a "latent" BVR capable fighter with a Python/Derby purchase, being the only requirement given the basics are already in place in the "2000" variant...

Throw in a DASH HMS and Python 5 on top of Derby and they'll be a handful...
Click to expand...
What air to air radar do those Kfirs have though ? Because even if you equip them with Derby the range is bound to be limited. R77 fired from max range of a modern Zhuk radar could certainly wipe out the Kfirs before they can fire back.
Besides I would have opted for a highly visible weapons capability to make sure Chavez doesn't feel like trying anything, rather than the scenario where he does attack and realizes that his SU30s are less superior than he thought.

cheers
 
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ROCK45

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Colombian options

contedicavour I see your point make sure they know you have a big stick before they find out if you're swing it. I saw it on a some web site that Colombia I hope I get it right has Spider SAM's? I know a little from current news about PAC-3 and S-300/400 mostly likely out of Colombia's price range but what are other options? Do the United States make Hawk I, II missile anymore? Russia seems to have the SA-5,6,8,9,10 etc (I know some are old) besides the more costly types what are some mid or low priced types?

Aussie Digger you made me laugh with your
"I'd hate to be the over-confident SU-30 pilot who suddenly finds a Derby going "active"..."
Click to expand...
comment.

That was great.
 
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