China Naval Modernization (Implications for US Naval Capabilities)

[coolieno99]

... etc .... China is the world's 3rd largest shipbuilder and approaching a 3-way tie with Japan and South Korea. If the quality is not up to par, then other countries would not be buying its ships. ... etc ...

China is in the process of building the largest shipyard in the world. She plans to overtake South Korea as the world's largest shipbuilder.

 

[KGB]

China is in the process of building the largest shipyard in the world. She plans to overtake South Korea as the world's largest shipbuilder.

Of course you realize that building megatankers and megacargo ships (which Hyundai of SK does) isn't the quite the same as building ACs and SSNs.

Navies are expensive. Countries whose security/economy aren`t heavily dependent on the sea but build a big navy anyway can in the end find them an expensive, ultimately unsustainable white elephant, Germany in WW1, USSR during the cold war for example. A crude illustration: Germany at the beginning of the 20th century wanted to challenge England's mastery of the sea, and embarked on a shipbuilding program. It however, had to split it's resources since Germany needed to maintain a powerfull standing army as well. England had no such conflict as it knew exactly where its priorities were.

 

[tphuang]

Of course you realize that building megatankers and megacargo ships (which Hyundai of SK does) isn't the quite the same as building ACs and SSNs.

Navies are expensive. Countries whose security/economy aren`t heavily dependent on the sea but build a big navy anyway can in the end find them an expensive, ultimately unsustainable white elephant, Germany in WW1, USSR during the cold war for example. A crude illustration: Germany at the beginning of the 20th century wanted to challenge England's mastery of the sea, and embarked on a shipbuilding program. It however, had to split it's resources since Germany needed to maintain a powerfull standing army as well. England had no such conflict as it knew exactly where its priorities were.

the point being, having a lot of orders make sure that the quality of ship building is good. It makes sure that the shipyard will be filled with experienced shipbuilders and quality tooling. One thing you can say is that the new PLAN ships will definitely be well built.

 

[sidious]

I got my GDP statement from a Pentagon report? Im talking real GDP, not purchasing power.
Right now, from what I've seen the Yuan class, like so many other Chinese domestic hopefuls, is already outdated, but yes, the export kilo. As I understand it, its hiding and attack capabilities are less advanced. Song should have been cancelled, I highly doubt that the PLAN have worked out the Song's problems? The PLAN will rely on its kilos for all its non-sea denial missions. The Song relies on 1980 era technology, but I have heard that China has been fitting capable foreign sonars on to them.
Misunderstanding on the submarine safety record, but currently the PLAN has the worst record, they lost a submarine last year did they not? I know fires are a regular occurence on PLAN boats. One boat has also been completely disabled at sea recently.

china relies on the kilos to make up for the numbers caused by a delay in the song production they only arrived now because the russian sucks at delivering on time

they also lost only 2 subs in 50 years much better then the russians

no fire do not regularly occur on PLAn boats the news japs reported is a fire drill

also almost all PLAN boats can launched the C-803 missile under water they have also proven to be quiet enough to reach japan undected

END NOTE learn more about the PLAN before posting

Mod editath: Not many of us are experts on the Chinese navy, but they are encouraged to expressed their opinion in a logical manner. I would appreciate it if you change your attitude.

 

[KGB]

The worst safety record would have to go to the Soviet navy for the sheer number of accidents. But of course you have top put it into perspective; they were running a pretty large fleet.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The worst safety record would have to go to the Soviet navy for the sheer number of accidents. But of course you have top put it into perspective; they were running a pretty large fleet.

A good reference book on the Soviet/Russian Submarine Service is "Rising Tide" This is a book where Soviet/Russian submariners were interviewed - its not a book written on an authors assumptions, but based on actual recall by sailors who served in the Sov/Russian navy.

The Soviets/Russians unfortunately had/have an appalling record on quality control - it just wasn't due to the size of their Submarine Service. When you look at the comparative ratio of losses against the USN it's almost criminal.
Rising Tide

The Untold Story Of The Russian Submarines That Fought The Cold War
by Gary E. Weir, Walter J. Boyne


Oct 15, 2003
Hardcover
US $26.00
CAN $39.50
0465091121
Published by Basic Books

Description

For devotees of the submarine espionage stories in Blind Man's Bluff, Rising Tide tells the Soviet/Russian side of the most secretive operations of the Cold War. For the first time, seven Soviet admirals, along with leading naval historian Dr. Gary Weir, reveal the successful spying missions, the technological breakthroughs, the confrontations with U.S. forces, and the undersea disasters that killed many hundreds of sailors. With decades of experience on submarines or commanding submarine fleets, these seven senior admirals, many highly decorated, give us the inside stories. They detail the undersea successes such as the blockade of the U.S. submarine base in Bangor, Washington, and the innovative surveillance techniques they developed to trail the U.S. Sixth fleet in the Mediterranean. They reveal the development of the first nuclear submarines, profiling Dr. Peregudov, the father of the Soviet nuclear submarine and the internecine battles among Soviet bureaucrats that led to the deaths of many Russian sailors. And they give first hand accounts of deadly confrontations, such as the sinking of K-219, off Bermuda and the collision of USS Taurog and the Soviet K-108, including unpublished photos of the incident's aftermath. Rising Tide also reveals the many catastrophes and the occasional heroic rescues, and answers many questions surrounding the sensational loss of the Kursk, the most advanced vessel in the Russian fleet. Covering submarines from the first advanced diesel subs in the 1950s to the Kursk in 2000, with the authority only senior naval officials could deliver, Rising Tide is the complete story of the Soviet side of the gripping, secret life of the submariners in the Cold War.
Reviews



"I read Rising Tide in one huge gulp: it is a long-overdue record of the disastrous history of the Soviet and Russian submarine force. Weir and Boyne give a superb account as related by those gallant men whose submarines exploded, burned, and sank around them--a full and precise account of the poison legacy of a failed system."
— Peter Huchthausen, author of October Fury
"You don't have to be a fan of Tom Clancy novels or military history to be sucked in by this fascinating work, based on first-hand Russian accounts of submarine "warfare" during the Cold War. Full of chilling revelations about this most secret front in the US' 40 year war with the Soviet Union."
— Russian Life
"This is the kind of information that during the Cold war the United States spent billions trying to get. It is another peek inside the Soviet Navy's mind."
— Sherry Sontag, , co-author of Blind Man's Bluff
"Weir and Boyne have written an important book. More than just collecting these fascinating stories, they give us the background to understand them. These submarine captains were the best the Soviets had, and understanding them though this book, gives us a look into a formerly hidden part of the Cold War."
— Larry Bond, , author of Day of Wrath and Red Phoenix
"Drawing on newly available archives and interviews with former Soviet submarine operators, Rising Tide is the first book available to Westerners revealing the secrets of Soviet submariners during the Cold War."
— Sea Power
"Weir and Boyne offer a fascinating and fluid narrative of the Cold War from the perspective of the navies of Soviet and post-Soviet Russia."
— Edmonton Sun
Rights


World Excluding UK & Commonwealth

welll worth buying if you're a fan of Sov/Russian Naval history.

 

[KGB]

I read that , more than once actually. I'd really like to see some NATO skippers from that time frame comment on the book though. There are some assertions made there that are in conflict with many other sources.