Chilean Army Buys 100 Leopard 2 MBT

[Feña]

Accordingly to JDW, the chilean army has close a deal with Germany (Goverment-to-Goverment) to purchase 100 Leopard 2 A4 MBT. This as part of the modernisation process of the chilean army.

Other 2005-2006 purchases include:

-160 AIFV YPR-765
-24 M109 A3 (RUAG)
-200 Hummvees (some w/ ATGW Spike) 2/3 goes to the Army the remaining 1/3 to chilean Marines.
-Undisclose number of Mistral AA Missiles

There are no information about the possible inclusion of Gepard AAA systems in the deal with Germany.

The chilean army still needs to define the acquisition of new attack / transport helos for the Air Brigade of Rancagua.

Feña

 

[Whiskyjack]

Accordingly to JDW, the chilean army has close a deal with Germany (Goverment-to-Goverment) to purchase 100 Leopard 2 A4 MBT. This as part of the modernisation process of the chilean army.

Other 2005-2006 purchases include:

-160 AIFV YPR-765
-24 M109 A3 (RUAG)
-200 Hummvees (some w/ ATGW Spike) 2/3 goes to the Army the remaining 1/3 to chilean Marines.
-Undisclose number of Mistral AA Missiles

There are no information about the possible inclusion of Gepard AAA systems in the deal with Germany.

The chilean army still needs to define the acquisition of new attack / transport helos for the Air Brigade of Rancagua.

Feña

A powerful brigade for the region, I think the LeoII will be the most powerful tank in South America. What is the infratructure like for a heavy tank like the LeoII? Bridges and roads etc..?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Accordingly to JDW, the chilean army has close a deal with Germany (Goverment-to-Goverment) to purchase 100 Leopard 2 A4 MBT.

Excellent tank - and from my own perspective - I wished the Aust army had bought some ex NATO german warstock Leo2A4's that were offered - rather than the Abrams.

 

[Whiskyjack]

Added to the new frigates and F-16s the above equipment, the armed forces of Chile must be some of the most modern in South South America.

 

[Bfn42]

Excellent tank - and from my own perspective - I wished the Aust army had bought some ex NATO german warstock Leo2A4's that were offered - rather than the Abrams.

May I ask why?

 

[gf0012-aust]

May I ask why?

• The germans offered us A4's at very competitive prices.
• I was involved with some ballistics testing of modified Leo1 panels about 5 years ago. The data on those panels was commensurate with an export Abrams (non DU plate)
• Superior gun (IMV)
• VFM - value for money. we could have bought 2-3 ,times more MBT's for the same price and the germans were willing to throw in support vehicles etc...
• they were ex warstock - so almost brand new and comparable to a zero timed rebuilt abrams as such.

 

[Bfn42]

• The germans offered us A4's at very competitive prices.
• I was involved with some ballistics testing of modified Leo1 panels about 5 years ago. The data on those panels was commensurate with an export Abrams (non DU plate)
• Superior gun (IMV)
• VFM - value for money. we could have bought 2-3 ,times more MBT's for the same price and the germans were willing to throw in support vehicles etc...
• they were ex warstock - so almost brand new and comparable to a zero timed rebuilt abrams as such.

Wow! I guess that Descision was more of a political descision then huh? BTW.......What type of ammo....is being shipped with your new abrams? Any DU?

 

[Supe]

VFM - value for money. we could have bought 2-3 ,times more MBT's for the same price and the germans were willing to throw in support vehicles etc...

...and the ADF wasn't interested?? I suppose the theory went - Abrams is battle tested and the Leo isn't. (GW1+2 was good PR) That should have put the Chally 2 in the running as well. Meanwhile, ADF only gets 59 tanks. ouch.

Kudos to the Chilean Gov. They've got themselves a sweet deal and a potent armour capability.

 

[gf0012-aust]

...and the ADF wasn't interested?? I suppose the theory went - Abrams is battle tested and the Leo isn't. (GW1+2 was good PR) That should have put the Chally 2 in the running as well. Meanwhile, ADF only gets 59 tanks. ouch.

Kudos to the Chilean Gov. They've got themselves a sweet deal and a potent armour capability.

Well, I'm no armour guy, so I'm sure that army have more than sufficient reasons for going with Abrams - its just that I can't see them

 

[Feña]

Hi

About the infraestructure question, there are no problems of roads or bridges in the Central Chile (Santiago - Valpo), because Chile is an export country and our roads system was design to sustain a bunch of heavy trucks traffic (18 wheelers and such) wich were responsible of moving the goods to the main ports, so a L2 is not a such big deal

Besides, the main concentrations of the Chilean Armor are in the Atacama desert in the northern border, facing our always unfriendly neighbours of Perú and Bolivia, so as you may know, there are no problems to move an Armor Brigade over a desert, if you can`t find a road, you just make one

The other armor concentration of the chilean army is in the Patagonia, but we have excelent relations with the argentinians, so that garrison is not the destination of the L2 (we have there Leopard 1 (L1) and AMX 30).

And yes, in the next years the ECH (Chilean Army) will be the "biggest and meanest dog" of the block , but there are reasons for that, mainly the rising of two dime "leaders" such Ollanta Humala (Perú) and Hugo Chavéz (Venezuela), and we are seen in LA as the "watch dog of the empire" (US) because of our friendly relations with the US and our extended network of FTA, so is better be a good neighbour, work with them and try to advance in our relations with all the countryes in LA, but at the same have reasonable military strength.

I dont have the detail of the german deal, but here is seen as the first batch of a total purchase of 300 L2 wich will replace all the remaining obsolete MBT of Chile (60 Improved M41, 60 AMX 30 B2 and the most worn out of the L1`s), that replacement must be completed in 2010 - 2012.

The main problem of the ECH NOW is the lack of air support, we dont have any attack helos and our heli transport force almost didnt deserve that name ... the Pumas AS 330/332 are in bad shape and the replacement program was posponed because the Goverment wants a single purchase of a standar model for the three services, but every service has his own requirements so, as you can imagine the generals and admirals were unable to find an agreement ... we (in the fox holes, I mean ) hope that the transport helo will be the ALH of Hindustan Helicopters wich is based in the German BK 117 and has israeli electronics, and the attack helo will be the AH 1Z Zulu Cobra ... but thats a long shoot because the US Marines are in love with that bird ... but hope is the last thing to loose ...

The price offered by the germans was US$400 the piece, and a extensive support package, probably including engineers vehicles and ... who knows maybe some Gepard AAA

Bye

 

[Feña]

Ups, the right price was US$400.000 the piece .... sorry

Bye

 

[rossfrb_1]

Wow! I guess that Descision was more of a political descision then huh? BTW.......What type of ammo....is being shipped with your new abrams? Any DU?

No DU, that'd be too controversial with the voters.
Looks like three types, i)training rounds ii) M830A1 Multipurpose iii) KEW-A2 tungsten APFSDS-T
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m830a1.htm
http://www.gd-ots.com/sitepages/inthenews/pressr/1204.html
".....
General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems will be the program prime contractor and will produce the latest 120mm KEW-A2 tungsten APFSDS-T cartridge, as well as quantities of training ammunition, for the Australian Armed Forces.
Tom Wilson, vice president, ATK Precision Systems Group, whose Ordnance and Ground Systems business unit will produce both the M830A1 Multipurpose round and training ammunition under the contract, said, "ATK and...."

People have complained that the ammunition types to be used by ADF for the Abrams are too limited.
I've read claims that ADF should also have some form of canister round on order. eg XM1028
Plus if you're going the whole hog, some form of guided munition would be handy too. eg GD-OTS
http://www.gd-ots.com/sitepages/dirfire.html

I've got no idea what's currently used in ADF Leo1s.

cheers
rb

 

[Supe]

The main problem of the ECH NOW is the lack of air support, we dont have any attack helos and our heli transport force almost didnt deserve that name ... the Pumas AS 330/332 are in bad shape and the replacement program was posponed because the Goverment wants a single purchase of a standar model for the three services, but every service has his own requirements so, as you can imagine the generals and admirals were unable to find an agreement ...

Perhaps the requirement could be met by 2 x types of Helos then. The NH-90 is proving to an emerging platform amongst nations wanting to consolidate their helo fleets.

 

[Stuart Mackey]

snip
[*]VFM - value for money. we could have bought 2-3 ,times more MBT's for the same price and the germans were willing to throw in support vehicles etc...
[*]they were ex warstock - so almost brand new and comparable to a zero timed rebuilt abrams as such.[/LIST]

I have been thinking that it would be nice for NZ to get some of those along with some IFVs for QAMAR, so we can pretend to have an offensive punch for our army.
Fat chance I hear people say?
Well dreams are free.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I have been thinking that it would be nice for NZ to get some of those along with some IFVs for QAMAR, so we can pretend to have an offensive punch for our army.
Fat chance I hear people say?
Well dreams are free.

The Germans have been giving the stuff away - and their ex NATO warstock stuff is impeccable.

we could have had SPH, arty, APC, etc... all at bargain prices and all in mint condition.

it wouldn't surprise me if they had approached NZ as well. AFAIK NZ is still on the NATO "share" list

 

[Stuart Mackey]

The Germans have been giving the stuff away - and their ex NATO warstock stuff is impeccable.

we could have had SPH, arty, APC, etc... all at bargain prices and all in mint condition.

it wouldn't surprise me if they had approached NZ as well. AFAIK NZ is still on the NATO "share" list

NZ has recently signed an intelligence sharing agreement with NATO and we will soon be effectivly under a NATO organisation in Afganistan. Its not unreasonable to think that NZ is on the 'Share' list, but I dont recall the German approching us with equipment offers however.
Still, if National wins the next election, and can actually develop a defence policy, then you never know what might happen {I just hope that politics dont get in the way of value for money}.

 

[Supe]

Would NZDF really want some of that heavy equipment though? NZDF travels pretty light these days - though I can conceive of NZDF procuring towed 155mm artillery at some point...

 

[Feña]

Well, what can I say, the reequipment programs of the chilean AF has been greatly advanced because of the "garaje sales" of the european countryes, and I think that we havent seen the last of it ... we still need some movile AAA systems (Gepard the crowd`s cry), complete the replacement of the MBT with L2, some more M109 and maybe another 160 AIFV to complete the TOE of another heavy brigade, the infantry battalions has nearly 600 M113 (including special variants such as engineers, ambulance, etc), 100 MOWAG Piranha 8x8 an another 300 6x6 so they are OK ... the Hummvees will be brand news and the ATW too, so, we have created a good force mix, still we need the helos, european options have been considered and so the Black Hawk, but since that is not my particular area of expertise I cant say what will happen there ..

Bye

 

[Stuart Mackey]

Would NZDF really want some of that heavy equipment though? NZDF travels pretty light these days - though I can conceive of NZDF procuring towed 155mm artillery at some point...

I think the quesion is, does the government? The army is supposed to be able to put a battalion group into a chapter 7 peace enforcement/mid intensity conflict operation. The artillery is supposed to be replaced in a few years and I think we will probably end up with whatever the Australians get....but this is way off topic..my bad

 

[Lucasnz]

I think the quesion is, does the government? The army is supposed to be able to put a battalion group into a chapter 7 peace enforcement/mid intensity conflict operation. The artillery is supposed to be replaced in a few years and I think we will probably end up with whatever the Australians get....but this is way off topic..my bad

I can remember seeing a battery of heavy artillery at the Hamilton Army in the 1980's. The army sought to replace them under I think it was the 4th Labour government, but failed to justify its case (I think this is in the book Defending NZ). I can't see the army going for 155mm when it can only field 3 6 gun batterys of 105mm. I think the army should go for 8 gun battery regiment, with a further 18 guns for intro training, terroritial force use. This would take us back to where we use to be before the pack howiziters were withdrawn.