cheap 4th generation fighters

tphuang

Super Moderator
chinawhite said:
For engine hours the AL-31FN is 1500hours while a AL-31F is 1000hours
hmm, those engines delivered for J-10 never lasted that long, I can tell you that! The engines for flankers work out to be just as bad.

That's part of the reason why China is so desperate for its own engines.
 

Ramjetmissile

New Member
hovercraft said:
f-15 is not cheaper. And what you think about mig-29 SMT, i don't know about its price.
What about the F-15T it aint cheap. Apparently she has all the fabulous component in it.Armed with Aim-9X
 

LancerMc

New Member
While the LCA project has occurred during the period of 4th Gen fighters, I don't think it will be able to meet the capabilities of plentiful aircraft like the Gripen and F-16 for the foreseeable future.

Plus will India export the aircraft to other countries, since it was designed as an local built replacement for their MiG-21 fleet.
 

Occum

Defense Professional
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chinawhite said:
For engine hours the AL-31FN is 1500hours while a AL-31F is 1000hours
Anyone know where the AL-41F engine is at?

How about the thrust rating?

I am getting conflicting reports from searches!

:confused:
 

tphuang

Super Moderator
Occum said:
Anyone know where the AL-41F engine is at?

How about the thrust rating?

I am getting conflicting reports from searches!

:confused:
you are getting conflicting report because AL-41F hasn't been developed yet. I remember the spec was set at 175kN, let's see if Salyut can achieve that. The thrust rating for AL-41F1 (which supposedly is ready for su-35s) was speculated to be 140kN or 145kN or even more than that. I'm guessing the lower value is probably the safer bet.
 

410Cougar

New Member
Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the unit price would go down if Hungary/SA bought more planes. Based on their economies, especially that of Hungary, don't be looking for them to buy any more jets. They can barely afford to put the ones they're purchasing into the air.

As for those who consider purchasing an SU-27, think of the maintenance costs and then decide if its still worth the purchase. Everyone always wants the best, but when you realise just how much support work goes into an airframe, it sometimes just doesn't make sense.

If people want multi role, why not start picking up F/A-18 C/D's from the US, Canada, Australia and Switzerland in the next 5-10 years? Good airframe, cheap, decent avionics packages and not that many hours on the frames...well, maybe not the US airframes...but you get what I mean.

Attila
 

J.K Nilsson

New Member
The Gripen isn´t a cheap air craft. But it´s cheaper both to buy and operate than the mighty Viggen. Only South Africa among the customers are bying their airframes, Cz and Hu are leasing their fleet, with some support of both servicemen (officers) and ground equipment from the Swedish Air Force.

The Hu were supposed to lease our old trench 1 Gripens. The software was ready to be loaded onto the computer to display the text in english instead of Swedish. The Hu changed their minds and wanted the EBS-variant. So these airframes was scrapped and the vings, canards and fin was reinforced and reused with new airframes. So they are getting brand new Gripens and they are supposed to buy them after the leasing period are over.

The Cz will most probably seek for other alternatives at the end of the leasing period to get the grippens cheaper. That country must be used to conclude deals with the Sovjet Union since they are that careful to inspect the ground equipment that are going south to them.

Regards,

J.K Nilsson
 

turin

New Member
Some prices for the Gripen are indeed very interesting. I remember some pretty cheap offers recently but I would take the guess that it was more due to Saabs/BAEs skill with calculations/offsets/whatever than to real price advantage.
And of course there was the austrian competition where the Gripen came in pretty expensive where they thought, they could build upon their long-term relations with Austria.
 
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J.K Nilsson

New Member
turin said:
And of course there was the austrian competition where the Gripen came in pretty expensive where they thought, they could build upon their long-term relations with Austria.
The development of the EBS Gripen has been already paid for by the SwAF. The planes for other customers can be really cheap. There are mostly OTS components in Gripen and belive me the come cheap.

Regards,

J.K Nilsson
 

Gaenth

New Member
Hi everyone. I would like to know your thoughts as to why countries like Chile or Greece are buying new F-16s instead of Grippens which to me are ideal to replace F-5s, Mirages or older F-16s.
 
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LancerMc

New Member
There are a number of reasons including the fact the U.S. and Lockheed Martin are pressing for major sales of the F-16 to keep another fighter aircraft line open in the U.S.

Plus with the sale of F-16's get the chance to buy the most advance American ground attack muntions like JDAM's. Though eventually I am sure the Gripen will be able to carry GPS muntions.
 

J.K Nilsson

New Member
LancerMc said:
Plus with the sale of F-16's get the chance to buy the most advance American ground attack muntions like JDAM's. Though eventually I am sure the Gripen will be able to carry GPS muntions.
The problem isn´t the integration of new weapons. The problem could be the customers when they arn´t allowed to by the armament from the US.

Regards,

J.K Nilsson
 

tphuang

Super Moderator
Interesting enough, I recently just read a report of an interview with the L-15 (a new Chinese trainer) developer who said that the cost of FC-1 for plaaf is only 10 million US dollar each. And at the same time, the cost of an advanced trainer like L-15 can be as cheap as 12 million US dollar each. If we are looking at cheap 4th generation fighters, FC-1 would definitely fit the profile. Of course, export versions would cost more, but the per unit cost even after training program, missiles and other stuff is probably no more than 20 million US dollar. That would be quite affordable for a 3rd world country or a country that is too cheap to spend on its military like Canada (jk...).
 

powerslavenegi

New Member
zoolander said:
There is a flood of MRCA 4th generation fighters out on the market. To the untrained they all look the same. emp. all delta and canard style. Which of the following planes is better please supply info. I am only including the cheaper planes.

J-10
Grifen
Su-27
F-16

i will provide price and info later.
su-27 anytime russian aircraft are anytime the best in the world when it comes to sheer performnace and manueverability
 
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