true but still shows the impressiveness of the C17 and its capacity
and were talking ferry flights to the Falklands. [also could i have a link for the Venezuelan LST]
p.s thanks for the ISBN ricksavage
Chavez and Castro
- Thread starter shimmy
- Start date
and were talking ferry flights to the Falklands. [also could i have a link for the Venezuelan LST]
p.s thanks for the ISBN ricksavage
Especially if we're talking infantry with kit only. It's the vehicles that take away space usually. You could probably bring those LSTs to some 2,000 men surge capacity for short trips or somewhere around that. And that's still for one-week trips or so, not just immediate-evacuation needs (where Germany has proven in WW2 that yes, you can stick 10,000 ppl on a light cruiser).
Tornado F3
New Member
can some vc-10's and tristars help with the troops, i'm sure they can be refited with seats.
and it may allow most C-17's to do the cargo work.
and it may allow most C-17's to do the cargo work.
Super Nimrod
New Member
I have seen it reported on other UK websites, Arrse etc that the UK now has quite a bit of materiel down there in storage on a 'just in case basis'. Nobody said what equipment though for reasons of Opsec
Andrew Toppans sadly neglected (no updates since 2003, IIRC) site -true but still shows the impressiveness of the C17 and its capacity
LST]
p.s thanks for the ISBN ricksavage
http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/venez.htm#3
A Venezuelan site -
http://www.fav-club.com/SeccionARV/Homepage/Capana.htm
Some pictures -
http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/25425/date/1183367983
http://wikimapia.org/1640724/
http://wikimapia.org/1643281/
And the Venezuelan navy website -
http://www.armada.mil.ve/nuestraarmada/nuestraarmada.html
Sounds like Chavez is rather upset that he's not in the headlines at the moment, and wants to call attention to himself. If anything, the Kelpers have nothing to fear from Chavez and his blustering; the real threat with Chavez is from his supplying both safe havens and weapons to the FARC, who have already begun moving northward out of Vaupes into Guaviare towards Venezuela (I get first hand reports from indians fleeing to Brazil from the fighting; also, there is a very good video report on the BBC website - search "Nukak"); given the role of the US military advisors in training the Colombians under Plan Colombia, it looks as if Chavez and the FARC are trying to take a page out of the old Vietcong playbook.
Raven
Raven
erich hartman
New Member
do the people of venezuela really pay any attention to this w@nker??
it's ironic how he goes on about helping the poor and then spends $billions buying military toys.
and now he supports argentia's claim to the falklands.......it was invaded by a right wing military junta, perhaps the leftist el presidento has conveniently forgotten this.
if those dumb venezuelan peasants are stupid enough to fall for this nonsense they deserve everything hugo dishes out to them.
it's ironic how he goes on about helping the poor and then spends $billions buying military toys.
and now he supports argentia's claim to the falklands.......it was invaded by a right wing military junta, perhaps the leftist el presidento has conveniently forgotten this.
if those dumb venezuelan peasants are stupid enough to fall for this nonsense they deserve everything hugo dishes out to them.
People don't need democracy - they need a chicken in the pot; at least that's how nutters like Chavez think. To a certain extent he has a point. The poorest people of Venezuela have never done so well - and as such they'll likely defend his regime to the end. Sad, but true.
"Conveniently forgotten" - that's a good way to phrase it; he hasn't really forgotten it, but he likes to play on populist sentiments, irregardless of whether the historical ideology is in line with his own ideals. He assumes, incorrectly, that he'll garner support for his regime through such attitudes.
The good news is that the Colombians took out the "Black Acacia" on the first of September; with their major logistical organizer out of the equation, it'll be a bit harder for the FARC to pay for Chavez's weapons.
Raven
"Conveniently forgotten" - that's a good way to phrase it; he hasn't really forgotten it, but he likes to play on populist sentiments, irregardless of whether the historical ideology is in line with his own ideals. He assumes, incorrectly, that he'll garner support for his regime through such attitudes.
The good news is that the Colombians took out the "Black Acacia" on the first of September; with their major logistical organizer out of the equation, it'll be a bit harder for the FARC to pay for Chavez's weapons.
Raven
Gripenator
Banned Member
Chavez or Chawank as I prefer to call him is a populist, ableit an ideological populist-he rants off just to solidify public support and direct attention away from Venezuala's internal problems and onto external 'troubles'-exactly the same deal in Argentina before the Faulklands War with the junta diverting attention away from domestic imbalances in the economy. You also have to realize that Argentina is somewhat of a failed state with third world infrastructure(that is still using equipment from that conflict), the recent economic meltdown in 2003 doing wonders for its reputation overseas-Chavez has quite a fanbase among the Argentineans.
Seriously, the only threat Chawank can initiate to the RN is a purchase of 8-10 636 Kilo or Amur Class SSKs with his petro dollars as well as Russian S-300/400 SAM systems, Igla MANPADS and At-13 Kornet ATGMs and station them around the Faulklands a la blockade style to buy time while the Argentine horde swarm across to the isalnds and distribute the MANPADS and ATGMs to the Argies Hezbollah Style. Needless to say, the coming UK CBG ASuW sweep with SSNs and the few assets that can be deployed in support is going to take a while in addition to the suppression of the SAM batteries and MANPADS problem.
But it looks as if he isn't smart enough being the big gorilla he is, those spanking new Su-30MKVs are going to be fresh meat for the PAAMS
My main take is Chavez is indeed winning. He's defined winning in his rants against the US and the UK. He, along with the other "loud mouths" around the word are preaching an almost identical message.
Chavez uses, "I'm elected and thus we have a democracy. We were all lead to believe a democracy would give us the 'American Dream'. However, just looking around at your neighbor, everyone sees both our neighbors and us are living an American/UK Imperial Nightmare. They are trying in every way to steal our country's oil, they want to make us a poor country/continent forever.
I'm not changing anything in our constitution except the influences that the foreign elements trying to undermine us have covertly installed in our constitution in order to keep the people of our country and continent, poor and imprisoned. Our revolution for freedom everywhere depends upon everyone understanding the 'force' working against us...etc." The same/similar junk coming from all of the people Chavez calls his friends these days.
What's dangerous is:
-Oil (money tree), can buy weapons for asymmetrical warfare.
-Chavez gives "free oil" to neighbors as well as weapons.
-There are reports he received WMDs (Chemical and Biological), from spain after the bombings and change in gov't there. I can provide a link later (4:45am here, sleepy... but Google it, I think Europa has an article among others-I don't know the slant of the paper, but it's in other places too). These reports (facts) are a big problem for our gov't. Not only is there already a deep base of "radicals" in that area (Hizbollah has a large following in a certain ungoverned area that they have built up since their bombings in Argentina). This is the "quiet but large problem" that the US is dealing with.
-Chavez has turned/sold certain oil fields to China. Oil for Arms and cheap products.
-China is buying as much oil as it can. Both POP and Market Value--which means they help drive up prices and are than given a "nice rebate." i.e. they aren't paying anything like market price, which hurts us and Europe. China is doing this all over the world. Same with minerals and metals.
-Chavez (ad friends) see this and know it hurts the "Devils."
-Like Ahmadinejad, Chavez isn't stupid. He understands what he's doing. He's flipping "Democracy on its head." Like so many others, he's equated having elections as being a Democracy. The thing is, he was elected in a "democratic manor" and thus has the mandate from the people to "free them" (i.e. do what he wants with anything, like the constitution). Chavez's revolution is a perfect example of "Destroy and Rebuild."
I'm not sure the UK would want to get involved in a S. America "insurgents" vs. the UK/USA!?!:unknown
I think the following is an excellent look into Chavez. It's long and in depth, but I think it is well-worth the read as I see the same analysis/conclusions:
HTML version
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...oncern&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us&client=safari
PDF version
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB628.pdf
Peace
Chavez uses, "I'm elected and thus we have a democracy. We were all lead to believe a democracy would give us the 'American Dream'. However, just looking around at your neighbor, everyone sees both our neighbors and us are living an American/UK Imperial Nightmare. They are trying in every way to steal our country's oil, they want to make us a poor country/continent forever.
I'm not changing anything in our constitution except the influences that the foreign elements trying to undermine us have covertly installed in our constitution in order to keep the people of our country and continent, poor and imprisoned. Our revolution for freedom everywhere depends upon everyone understanding the 'force' working against us...etc." The same/similar junk coming from all of the people Chavez calls his friends these days.
What's dangerous is:
-Oil (money tree), can buy weapons for asymmetrical warfare.
-Chavez gives "free oil" to neighbors as well as weapons.
-There are reports he received WMDs (Chemical and Biological), from spain after the bombings and change in gov't there. I can provide a link later (4:45am here, sleepy... but Google it, I think Europa has an article among others-I don't know the slant of the paper, but it's in other places too). These reports (facts) are a big problem for our gov't. Not only is there already a deep base of "radicals" in that area (Hizbollah has a large following in a certain ungoverned area that they have built up since their bombings in Argentina). This is the "quiet but large problem" that the US is dealing with.
-Chavez has turned/sold certain oil fields to China. Oil for Arms and cheap products.
-China is buying as much oil as it can. Both POP and Market Value--which means they help drive up prices and are than given a "nice rebate." i.e. they aren't paying anything like market price, which hurts us and Europe. China is doing this all over the world. Same with minerals and metals.
-Chavez (ad friends) see this and know it hurts the "Devils."
-Like Ahmadinejad, Chavez isn't stupid. He understands what he's doing. He's flipping "Democracy on its head." Like so many others, he's equated having elections as being a Democracy. The thing is, he was elected in a "democratic manor" and thus has the mandate from the people to "free them" (i.e. do what he wants with anything, like the constitution). Chavez's revolution is a perfect example of "Destroy and Rebuild."
I'm not sure the UK would want to get involved in a S. America "insurgents" vs. the UK/USA!?!:unknown
I think the following is an excellent look into Chavez. It's long and in depth, but I think it is well-worth the read as I see the same analysis/conclusions:
HTML version
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...oncern&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us&client=safari
PDF version
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB628.pdf
Peace
Having been to Argentina, I wouldn't say it has 3rd world infrastructure. More like a lot of old-fashioned 1st world infrastructure still hanging around. Nor is it a failed state, though it certainly has governance problems.
Argentina is failing to come to terms with no longer being one of the worls richest countries, being overtaken by Chile, no longer being able to look down on the impoverished Brazilians, etc., etc. But a developed country (& that's what Argentina was) can keep going for a long time on inertia, as long as it isn't smashed up, & Argentina hasn't been smashed.
BTW, the economic crash was in late 2001, bottoming out in 2002. Since then, GDP has grown over 50%.
Argentina is failing to come to terms with no longer being one of the worls richest countries, being overtaken by Chile, no longer being able to look down on the impoverished Brazilians, etc., etc. But a developed country (& that's what Argentina was) can keep going for a long time on inertia, as long as it isn't smashed up, & Argentina hasn't been smashed.
BTW, the economic crash was in late 2001, bottoming out in 2002. Since then, GDP has grown over 50%.
Neutral Zone
New Member
One of the reasons why Chavez has done so well is because he has been able to take advantage of the widespread dislike of Bush and neocon unilateralist policies. In 18 months time, with either Clinton, Obama or Giuliani in the White House, then he won't have an obvious bogeyman to rant about. America and Venezuela may then just learn to live with each other and Chavez may then just concentrate on internal matters just like his good amigo Evo Morales is doing in Bolivia. I haven't heard him coming out with grand military adventures.