Capabilities and data Comparision of AAM's

[ajay_ijn]

Comparision of the Capabilities of any AAM's can be made in this thread.



I wanted to compare Capabilities of ASRAAM and Python-4.

Aerodynamics:The AIM-132 is a high-speed short-range rocket-powered missile with a low-drag configuration without any forward flying surfaces. The missile is compatible with all available target designation systems like radar, electro-optical sensors and helmet-mounted cueing sights, and its low-smoke solid-propellant rocket motor provides very high acceleration off the launch rail. Using its four cruciform tail surfaces, the ASRAAM can pull up to 50 g immediately after launch
ASRAAM has 90 degree off boresight capability.

The Python 4 is a true fourth generation missile, designed from the ground up for the demanding requirements of this style of air combat. It employs an all aspect gimballed seeker designed for large off boresight acquisition and tracking angles, and a high tracking rate. It also employs a new powerplant, and unique aerodynamics specifically optimised for high agility.
Python-4 has in excess of 60 degree off boresight capability(Exact figures not yet disclosed)
Guidance:

ASRAAM has the new Focal Plane Array IIR (Imaging Infrared) seeker Similar to the one in AIM-9X.

It has Counter measure Resistance and capability of Lock on after Launch.

The main improvement compared to the existing AIM-9L/M Sidewinder, however, is the new Focal Plane Array IIR (Imaging Infrared) seeker, which is similar to the one used in the American AIM-9X. The ASRAAM also has a LOAL (Lock-On After Launch) capability which is a distinct advantage when the missile is carried in an internal weapons bayThis seeker has a long acquisition range, high countermeasures resistance, high off-boresight (+/- 90°) field-of-view, and the capability to designate specific parts of the targeted aircraft (like cockpit, engines, etc.).

Target acquisition and track is achieved by an advanced imaging infra red seeker and state of the art image processing. The Electronics and Power Unit, the brain of the missile, is one of the most powerful computer systems ever used in a missile

Python has multiple detector array Seeker with advanced IR ECCM Capability.
It employs DSP(Digital Signal Processing) which will Improve Aquisition range.

Unfortunately Python-4 Does not have the capability of Lock on after Launch Capability and Lacks the Focal Plane Array Infra Red Seeker like in ASRAAM.

Israeli sources will only acknowledge that the missile uses a multiple detector array seeker, which has an IRCCM (ie IR ECCM) capability and the ability to reject background IR radiation. Typical two colour seekers (eg FIM-92C Stinger) use an Argon cooled InSb 4 micron IR detector and a Si or GaAs UV detector. Valid aircraft targets have a low UV signature and a high IR signature and this enables the Stinger to easily reject spurious targets such as flares. The Python 4 seeker has been credited with significantly better acquisition range than that of the AIM-9M, which is consistent with the sensitivity improvement produced by a multiple element seeker.

The Python 4 is known to employ digital signal processing techniques in the seeker, as well as a microprocessor based digital flight control system. The use of DSP (Digital Signal Processing) techniques will provide the seeker with better acquisition range than analogue seekers by exploiting the multiple detector elements to full advantage, as well as providing further IRCCM capability and the ability to intelligently manage fluctuating target signatures. A digital flight control system will allow the missile to optimise its flight control laws for the regime of flight, while also selectively choosing the most suitable homing algorithm parameters for the geometry of the engagement. The Python 4 missile employs a unique tailored proportional navigation homing algorithm.

Can anybody tell me what is this proporitional Navigation Homing Algorithm and what advantage will an AAM have with this.

Warhead and Fuze:
ASRAAM is armed with blast Fragmentation Warhead and Laser Proximity Fuze.

Python has the same Blast Fragmentation Warhead and Laser Proximity Fuze.

The missile employs a blast fragmentation warhead which is triggered by an active laser proximity fuse with a backup impact fuse, a design feature in common in the AIM-9, but different from the Archer which employs a radio proximity fuse. The warhead size has not been disclosed. Its electromagnetic proximity fuse is one of the best in the world.

Power Plant:
ASRAAM dual-thrust (boost/sustain) solid-fueled rocket.
Python-4 Employs 6inch diamater Rocket Motor similar as ASRAAM.

The Python 4 employs a 6 in diameter rocket motor, a feature it shares with the Archer and the ASRAAM. The long burn motor has a tailored thrust profile to achieve optimal acceleration for close-in closing engagements and high energy for terminal phase homing or end-game engagement. Thrust vectoring is not employed, the missile instead utilises aerodynamic design to achieve a high turn rate throughout the its flight envelope.

Other Capabilities:
Python-4 has unique Engagement Geometry.

The intent of the designers was to produce a missile which can not only be shot from a wider range of angles than earlier missiles, but which can also maintain track on a highly manoeuvrable high G target engaged during the merge or opening phase of an engagement. A passing target on a reciprocal heading can be engaged in most of the forward hemisphere, if the Python fails its first opportunity to hit, it will maintain track on the target and continue a tail chase geometry pursuit on a reciprocal heading to the launch aircraft, running down the target for a tail-aspect hit. The missile is claimed to have sufficient turning performance to defeat high G evasive manoeuvre by any existing fighter aircraft. Existing ACM experience with the missile suggests a typical engagement duration of much less than 30 seconds

Just look at this pic and u will understand Everything.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/python/python4.gif

A cruciform fixed canard is mounted on the nose to stabilise high angle of attack airflow over the cruciform canard control surfaces, which are used for pitch and yaw control, a technique used by a number of existing WVR AAMs. Roll control is achieved by a small pair of "paddle" vanes aft of the controls. The missile employs highly swept strakes along the fuselage which are intended to improve airflow characteristics over the tail surfaces. The swept tail surfaces are designed to swivel about the fuselage, this is designed to minimise lift induced rolling moments at high angles of attack in high G turns.

Python-4 has better G capability than anyother Missile.
One article was saying that Python-4 can change Fighter Doctrines of NATO countries.

Conclusionython-4 lacks Lock on after launch capability and Focal plane array seeker which puts ASRAAM is advantage.
Its not clear if Python-4's Advanced ECCM is better than ASRAAM's counter maesures.
But Python-4's Unique Engagement Geometry gives advantage in Combat.

Finally I think that Python-4 is not a good as ASRAAM,But its capabilities are just near to the ASRAAM.

Israeli RAFAEL introduced Python-5,fifith generation AAM which has all the capabilities of ASRAAM and Python-4 and some better Capabilities.
It has 180 degree capability.

 

[adsH]

But Python-4's Unique Engagement Geometry gives advantage in Combat.

Finally I think that Python-4 is not a good as ASRAAM,But its capabilities are just near to the ASRAAM.

Israeli RAFAEL introduced Python-5,fifith generation AAM which has all the capabilities of ASRAAM and Python-4 and some better Capabilities.
It has 180 degree capability.

Not true the Python-4's Lack of Lock on after launch puts it at an disadvantage, the 9X and the AIM-132 were designed to be fired and then locks were established it gives the Missile Time advantage saves money as a Larger Heavier expensive IR targeting system is not required(larger bore sight is not required since the Missile can lock onn after its been fired hence it more or less achieves its goals with the Sight Scope it has). The AIM-132 and 9X would be fired from mostly internal bays and they would be controlled from the HMCS, so when fired target then can be assigned so its not really missing anything id say the AIM-132 has the time advantage, which mean less time for the Enemy to react. The Maneuverability of the AIM-132 is better, 50 g Mach 3+, TVC, Dual Solid fuel Propeled Booster Rockets and its famous Low drag Body and unique LOAL.

The AIM-132 is a high-speed short-range rocket-powered missile with a low-drag configuration without any forward flying surfaces. The missile is compatible with all available target designation systems like radar, electro-optical sensors and helmet-mounted cueing sights, and its low-smoke solid-propellant rocket motor provides very high acceleration off the launch rail. Using its four cruciform tail surfaces, the ASRAAM can pull up to 50 g immediately after launch. The main improvement compared to the existing AIM-9L/M Sidewinder, however, is the new Focal Plane Array IIR (Imaging Infrared) seeker, which is similar to the one used in the American AIM-9X. This seeker has a long acquisition range, high countermeasures resistance, high off-boresight (+/- 90°) field-of-view, and the capability to designate specific parts of the targeted aircraft (like cockpit, engines, etc.). The ASRAAM also has a LOAL (Lock-On After Launch) capability which is a distinct advantage when the missile is carried in an internal weapons bay. The maximum effective range of the missile of course depends on the exact parameters (e.g. head-on or tail-chase engagement), but a figure of 15 km (8 nm) is sometimes quoted (the true figure is probably higher). Minimum range is quoted as around 300 m (1000 ft). The ASRAAM is armed with a 10 kg (22 lb) blast-fragmentation warhead, which is triggered by a combined laser proximity/impact fuzing system.

and lets not forget the 9X and the AIM-132 are in the NBVR catagory.

 

[aaaditya]

i think we should compare python-4 with r-73 missile and the python-5 with the aim132 asraam.python-5 has loal and lobl(lock on after launch and lock on before launch)and 90degree+off boresight capability.the seaker of python-4 is claimed to detect targets to range of 100kms in ideal conditions.

 

[ajay_ijn]

i think we should compare python-4 with r-73 missile and the python-5 with the aim132 asraam.python-5 has loal and lobl(lock on after launch and lock on before launch)and 90degree+off boresight capability.the seaker of python-4 is claimed to detect targets to range of 100kms in ideal conditions.

Both R-73 and Python-4 have their own Advatnges.
Python-4 has got much of the publicity
Apparently Germany pulled out of ASRAAM project only becoz it was found Inferior to R-73 in some Characteristics and jointly made IRIS-T with Italy,Sweden,Canada etc.
However ASRAAM can pull 60g even with out TVC while R-73 can only pull 12g with TVC.
May be G-force not depend on TVC.
R-73 Shocked the Western Countries when it came out ,which was found Significantly Superior to AIM-9L.Newer Version R-73M Has 40km range and High off boresight of 90degree.
However ASRAAM and AIM-9X countered it.
One exceptional Thing about R-73 is its Gas Dynamic Control System and Traverse Control Engines and also a rear-ward Firing Missile.
IRIS-T is also said to be superior to AIM-9,It has thrust Vectored nozzle like that of R-73 and Imgaing Infra-red Seeker.
However Python-5,I think will Best WVRAAM presently.

The Maneuverability of the AIM-132 is better, 50 g Mach 3+, TVC, Dual Solid fuel Propeled Booster Rockets and its famous Low drag Body and unique LOAL.

Slight correction,AIM-132 does not have TVC which is one of the big drawbacks.
The biggest advantages would be 50g,Imaging infra-red Seeker and LOAL.

What is this Traverse Control Engines in Archer??Anyother AAM has that

 

[adsH]

Yeah Ajay i think that was the reason why Germany pulled out of the Project they wanted TVC and we didn't want TVC, that requirement led them to the IRIS-T which i guess relies more on the TVC. i guess the ASRAAM does not really need TVC. this spec would have been an excess and would of just delayed the program further. i think the 50-60g and the Standard 9X seeker with NBVR capability is just fine with me.

 

[Aussie Digger]

The RAAF conducted an extensive evaluation of AAM's when it was looking to replace it's AIM-9M WVR missiles. It chose the AIM-132 ASRAAM over the Phython 4/5, AIM-9X and IRIS-T missiles...

This is an excerpt from the notes of the British chief of procurement, Lord Bach's statement regarding the RAAF's adoption of ASRAAM;
Notes to editors

ASRAAM, a rail launched missile, compatible with any aircraft currently carrying Sidewinder or AMRAAM, is already in service with the UK's Royal Air Force. It was developed under a UK MOD contract to equip the RAF's Tornado F3 and its Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft. This weapon system will also be fitted to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter for the UK RAF and Royal Navy.

ASRAAM's high speed is achieved by means of a combination of low drag and rocket motor size. By using a 166mm (6.5ins) diameter motor, compared with other missiles which use a 127mm (5ins) motor, ASRAAM has approximately 70% more thrust and can maintain a high speed throughout its flight time.

Designed to outmanoeuvre target aircraft in short-range aerial engagements and to allow launch at high off-bore sight angles during such engagements, ASRAAM is a highly agile missile. The exceptional manoeuvrability is provided by a sophisticated control technique achieved using innovative body lift technology coupled with tail control.

ASRAAM provides a pilot with the ability to effectively engage targets from gun range to near Beyond Visual Range. The pilot can cue the missile using a Helmet Mounted Display, Infra-Red Search and Track (IRST) or aircraft radar.

ASRAAM's maximum range is uncontested, and no other short-range air-to-air missile comes near to this capability, providing the ability to passively home beyond the limits of visual range and well into the realm traditionally thought of as Beyond Visual Range. Combined with its very high speed, this makes ASRAAM the ideal weapon to win the Within Visual Range combat regime.

Obtained from:

http://deso.uk.emb.gov.au/CONTENT/NEWS/NEWS_STORIES/news_story_85_ASRAAM_Enters_service_with_RAAF.htm

 

[aaaditya]

asraam has a bending body.

 

[adsH]

DSTL desinged the Missile, thats where all the clever stuff comes from.

 

[adsH]

I was right the Improved version that was provided to RAF RAAF was the TVC embedded version that’s why you can't see any of the Stabilizers that you have on the Python 5, I personally think Python 5 is a generation behind this Missile, your forgetting that were much better at technology then the Israelis. I would rate us rite behind the US.

 

[ajay_ijn]

I was right the Improved version that was provided to RAF RAAF was the TVC embedded version that’s why you can't see any of the Stabilizers that you have on the Python 5, I personally think Python 5 is a generation behind this Missile, your forgetting that were much better at technology then the Israelis. I would rate us rite behind the US.

Are u talking about ASRAAM,
ASRAAM as I said do not have TVC.
I don't know why do u think Python-5 is generation Behind Missile.
Python-5 is a Fifth Generation Missile With All the capabilities of ASRAAM.

It has Unique Electro-Optical Seeker,a dual waveband Imaging Seeker which Creates a Sharp Image of the target and locks on to the most vulnerable areas of the target.It also incorporates INS.

It has ability to Shoot target at any angle.

It has Lock on after launch capability,advanced IRCCM,Near BVR capability,Sophiticated Flight control algorithms.

Python-5's Computer is more powerful than all computers of Israeli Airforce Aircraft.

It can surely Contest for Best WVRAAM.

 

[adsH]

Please don't lecture me On Computers this is what I Do, the Python5 Has an embedded Control systems i.e. two or three of them Each to control each attribute of its Flight, Like all AAM its not got a Pentium I.e. layman's term. The Algorithms is clever, its drag factor due to its Wings makes it less efficient. I have a lecture I’m off will put down, my points in detail when I get back to my Halls.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Please don't lecture me On Computers this is what I Do, the Python5 Has an embedded Control systems i.e. two or three of them

I was not lecturing u,was I??

That statement about Python-5's computer was not mine ,It was from Israeli Weapons Website.
That Site do boast about their weapons Systems.
I don't know the exact reality becoz Neither did I design the Python-5 or do i get information beyond Web.
gf can help us as he is an Expert.

 

[adsH]

I was not lecturing u,was I??

That statement about Python-5's computer was not mine ,It was from Israeli Weapons Website.
That Site do boast about their weapons Systems.
I don't know the exact reality becoz Neither did I design the Python-5 or do i get information beyond Web.
gf can help us as he is an Expert.

It doesn't really take an expert to realize that the Python Five doesn't really house a supercomputer, Israeli super computers cannot be compared to the python 5, the Python Five Operates like other Missiles and uses Embedded micro controllers, Algorithm driven Embedded systems are designed to run on these Micro controllers. There are sections within the Missile that can be modularized i.e. flight control, Rocket boosters, Guidance Systems, Blast switches aka Proximity Switches. These Embed systems are integrated by some way and are activated when the Missile is fired from the Onboard Fire control interface. All of these units have to be really robust to actually work properly, I never said that the Python five is a terrible WVR Missile I was merely stating that the Improved P3I ASRAAM delivered to RAF by BAE is the improved version of the ASRAAM look at the Body compare it with the Python, you can clearly see that the difference. RAAF would of Procured the Python 5/4 if it was better then the ASRAAM, but they chose to Go for the ASRAAM, proves which one is better.

In January 1995 British Aerospace Dynamics, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, England, was awarded a letter contract with a ceiling amount of $10,933,154 for foreign comparative testing [FCT] of the ASRAAM Missile. The purpose of the testing is to gather data to determine if the missile meets AIM-9X operational requirements. Work was performed in Stevenage, Hertfordshire, England (50%), Eglin Air Force Base, Florida (25%), and China Lake, California (25%), and was completed by June 1996. The tests focused on the risk areas of the ASRAAM: focal plane array effectiveness, seeker signal processing, warhead effectiveness, rocket motor testing, and kinematic/guidance ability to support the lethality requirements of the AIM-9X. After several modifications to the scope of the FCT, the program assessed four ground-to-air sorties, 19 air-to-air captive carry sorties, four programmed missile launches, eight static warhead tests, and four rocket motor case tests. The resulting assessment was that the ASRAAM (as is) could not meet the AIM-9X operational requirements in high off-boresight angle performance, infrared counter-countermeasures robustness, lethality, and interoperability. Subsequently, Hughes and BAe proposed an improved "P3I ASRAAM" using thrust-vectoring to provide increased agility and to carry a heavier warhead.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/aim-132.htm

 

[rajupaki]

Q What is the maximum G of SD10?
Q the range of SD10 IS 70 km according to some sites and Aim has max range of 50 km, so Is SD10 superior to Aim or there are other parameters to judge the superiority of AA missile?
Q what is the maximum range missile currently operational in the world and who is using it?(not under development missiles)

CAN ANYONE PLZ ANSER MY QUESTIONS?

 

[ajay_ijn]

RAAF would of Procured the Python 5/4 if it was better then the ASRAAM, but they chose to Go for the ASRAAM, proves which one is better.

Couldn't there be other reasons??

It doesn't really take an expert to realize that the Python Five doesn't really house a supercomputer, Israeli super computers cannot be compared to the python 5, the Python Five Operates like other Missiles and uses Embedded micro controllers, Algorithm driven Embedded systems are designed to run on these Micro controllers. There are sections within the Missile that can be modularized i.e. flight control, Rocket boosters, Guidance Systems, Blast switches aka Proximity Switches.

I did not say it was a Supercomputer.
As I said that website was exaggerating.
But Why would any website make the mistake Deliberately.
It also said that the computer of Python-5 Computing power is 100 times more than python-4.
By the way Which is the world's most powerful Supercomputer??
Is it still the japanese Earth Simulator
I heard IBM made something better.

Aim has max range of 50 km, so Is SD10 superior to Aim

What AIM??
AIM-9 or AIM-7 or AIM-54 or AIM-120 or AIM-132.
May be u are talking about AIM-120.
If range is higher then is the Missile Superior???
No,never.
Not much is known about SD-10,Some say it is based on Italian Apside Missile which is the italian Version of Sea Sparrow ,Then it would be somewhat equal to AIM-7.

Q what is the maximum range missile currently operational in the world and who is using it?(not under development missiles)

The none and the other AIM-54 Phoenix of range 180km.
Only F-14 can carry 6 Phoenix Missiles for Defense of Aircraft Carrier (I have a Large F-14 WallPaper in my house)
Rumoured that S-400 of 400km can be Launched by Aircraft, which sounds really weird.
Such a big Missile with or without modification is really difficult for an Aircraft to carry.
It Name is KS-172.

 

[adsH]

Couldn't there be other reasons??

No, the RAAF and RAF would of not compromised there Operational Capability, Combat effectiveness is what helps them with there Force multiplier practices. RAF and RAAF had the Choice to go for one of the Three AIM-9x AIM-132 and the Python Variant. they chose the AIM-132 becasue of its capability. Israel still depends on the US for Hardware they may be able to produce Small scale stuff and software for all there hardware but they would not be able to compete with larger industrialized nations-like the UK France and US, in Quality Research and our Ability to adapt our products. the Rafael uses the AIM-132 as the primary AAM too.

 

[ajay_ijn]

the Rafael uses the AIM-132 as the primary AAM too.

It must be Rafale right??
Rafael is neither a Fighter nor an Airforce.

It is being said that there is Something unique about R-73 which still not matched by anyother.
What is that??

 

[rajupaki]

Couldn't there be other reasons??


I did not say it was a Supercomputer.
As I said that website -----------------------or without modification is really difficult for an Aircraft to carry.
It Name is KS-172.

Thanks Ajay for increasing my knowledge.

Q-Now what is the Highest G- Limit of any missile in the world? I thing that Aim120 is 100G's?

Q - of What material is chaff and flares made up of? .

 

[adsH]

It must be Rafale right??
Rafael is neither a Fighter nor an Airforce.


What is that??

Last breath of your Argument!! Catch the Guy on his spelling, Grow up Abit before Posting comments that don't make sense I can call that AC a Mango for all I care.

Your splitting threads of this discussion, the Rafael is a noun so in a matter of speaking i can call its Rafael Rafeal or I can use what the French use Rafale (Difference of Dialect). Its all the same since the Target Semantic remains the same you’ve lost the Argument stop trivializing this Conversation further.

 

[adsH]

It has ability to Shoot target at any angle.

It has Lock on after launch capability,advanced IRCCM,Near BVR capability,Sophiticated Flight control algorithms.

Python-5's Computer is more powerful than all computers of Israeli Airforce Aircraft.

It can surely Contest for Best WVRAAM.

what do you mean By Any angle!!! the Agle of attack are subject to structural Design. And laws of Physics.

You haven't evaluated the Missile personally A Buyer that Bought ASRAAM against the 9X and the Python has and he seems to think the ASRAAM was better.

Python5 Does not house a Supercomputer Assuming IAF utilizes sophisticated Computational Power so your statement, regardless of its reasons is flawed.
It can Contest but it won't win, Since Research needs Money and only Large enough industrial Countries have the Luxury of spending large sums on R&D projects like these. Israel granted has R&D programmes but it still utilises some of western research, Israel is a farley new state that needs to develop up

And now To Stop this Argument that was once a Conversation i leave you with your self to reflect upon whatever you've come to Understand. Go Right ahead No more replies from me!!.