Canada Defence Force

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
He's trying to say "We need the F-35" but just can't utter these words.
Yep, no point as doing so would be a career ender. Interesting push by TWZ on F-35 readiness to which the general replied no issues wrt this by US F-35 bases he visited. Commenting on GAO reports by US generals is probably a career ender as well.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
^ When one would think speaking the mind kindda matters and a guy should be able to without consideration for consequences. Politics and emotional satisfaction, as I quoted the Belgian in another threat.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
^ When one would think speaking the mind kindda matters and a guy should be able to without consideration for consequences. Politics and emotional satisfaction, as I quoted the Belgian in another threat.
The GoC is his employer. Speaking your mind in the private sector will often result in blowback from your employer.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
^ Indeed. I do not blame the man, to be sure, but the system. Dare I say, an individual of his rank in the private sector would be talking sense without (fear of) repercussions… until they are proven wrong that is.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Best of luck with your southern neighbour.
Beer maybe the answer

Cheers S
I will now inject a bit of levity with this clip. Given the state of things around the world generally, as well as Due South (of the Canadian border) a little levity might help.

It might be even funnier given who said it, and where they were from.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Another positive sign Canada has some adult pollies involved in Canadian defence requirements. While I understand the concerns Halifax citizens have regarding kinetic anti-drone systems, the naval assets are expensive and critical and relying on lasers and jamming aren't sufficient. Same applies to RCAF bases. Also, not sure on hardened protection for jets on most bases but likely some additional work is needed for protecting future P-8s and whatever fighters Canada ends up with. Agree, emerging technologies make defence solutions difficult for this threat.

The drone war comes home: Canada scrambles to shield military bases in legal grey zone
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
From RCAF thread:


Why would they have to be SSNs? Is Canada buying SSNs?

China operates about 60 submarines. Building more. They have ~24 AIP conventional subs today. They will have 25 SSN by the mid 2030s.
The round trip distance is at the extreme range for a SSK round trip.


The Chinese operate further away in the European waters and around Australia. Canada would be easier and closer.
View attachment 55084
China has operated their fishing fleet in South America.. Including the Argentinians sinking a few of their ships. I don't know why Canada would be "too far" as a concept. Canada is literally just out the front of China.
West coast of Canada is doable but hardly close. A round trip through the NW passage is longer via poorly charted waters with $hit weather and questionable ice conditions.


The J20 has a range of 6000 km and is capable of air to air refuelling. They could take off in bases in northern Russia. As a show of force in peacetime, maybe fly over Ontario or Vancouver.
I believe 6000 km is ferry range, combat range is 2000 km with external tanks. The distance from eastern Siberia to southern Ontario (Toronto) is 6000 km (one way). Vancouver is marginally more realistic but this would likely involve naval aircraft from a PLAN carrier



They have hundreds of them, they will need something to keep their pilots and planners busy. They have a ever growing refuelling fleet now too. Plenty of need to try ambitious flex of strength type ops. No doubt the Russians might be interested in Buying J20 if the Chinese could demonstrate that.
I doubt Xi would offer J-20s to Russia that wouldn't involve Russia giving up crown jewel defence technologies that Putin wouldn't want to do.


Again, they may not do it in actual war time. But as a grey zone activity. Sure, Northwest passage is exactly the kind of situation they want to enforce around the 1st island chain. Canada has been involved in FoN exercises which annoy the Chinese.
FoN between Taiwan and China is a passage between two countries in international waters (only China disputes this). The NW passage is within Canada.


I am not saying its a certainty. But are there realistic scenarios. Sure. China is a handful. As the US Canada relationship fractures, they might want to drive a wedge in and just cause chaos, or get the Americans to reploy forces outside of Asia.
Realistically, how many more US assets would be required above what is already present in the Arctic along with forthcoming Canadian assets (P-8s, MQ-9s and later SSKs)? As for chaos between Canada and the US, China has no need to do this, the IOTUS is doing it for them at zero cost.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
The round trip distance is at the extreme range for a SSK round trip.
West coast of Canada is doable but hardly close. A round trip through the NW passage is longer via poorly charted waters with $hit weather and questionable ice conditions.
Agreed, it would be ultra challenging, demonstration of projection of power type stuff. However with subs, public domain is notoriously inaccurate.

I believe 6000 km is ferry range, combat range is 2000 km with external tanks. The distance from eastern Siberia to southern Ontario (Toronto) is 6000 km (one way). Vancouver is marginally more realistic but this would likely involve naval aircraft from a PLAN carrier
Doesn't have to be a bombing run. They could be equipped in a ferry type/clean configuration. China's got a growing YY20 fleet. 1-2 a year being added. With 8 operational. Again, public domain, highly speculative. The J20 has significant range, more bomber type range than european/US fighter range. The distances are no longer insurmountable.

I don't think its ultra likely, but my point is there are more options than just firing nuclear tipped ICBM in an all or nothing game. China isn't Soviet Russia, China love to play grey games.

I doubt Xi would offer J-20s to Russia that wouldn't involve Russia giving up crown jewel defence technologies that Putin wouldn't want to do.
Perhaps. Russian basing is more believable. In Russia's current chaotic state and future chaotic states, its likely open to the wishes of China.

FoN between Taiwan and China is a passage between two countries in international waters (only China disputes this). The NW passage is within Canada.
Canada's primary security partner, the US disputes this statement. Its as disputed as China's claim of Taiwan waters being internal.

Realistically, how many more US assets would be required above what is already present in the Arctic along with forthcoming Canadian assets (P-8s, MQ-9s and later SSKs)? As for chaos between Canada and the US, China has no need to do this, the IOTUS is doing it for them at zero cost.
Well in the current state of play, there are lots more threats coming from down south. Again, not just firing nuclear tipped ICBM at Canada.

Honestly with the production of effective ABM capabilities on all sides, ICBMs are now likely pretty ineffective as a threat. You can no longer assert complete destruction of the other state. Many will get through, but every day the ICBM becomes less of a primary threat (if it ever was).

I do think the idea that Canada will always be totally protected from every threat, from HDAR, through to high scale peer and nuclear war, by its southern neighbour is extremely unrealistic given the current political climate. I would also add that the southern neighbour initself its owns threats to Canada.

Countries often manage US influence and interference in their own regions. For many good reasons.
 
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