I have never read anything inregards to the acceptance level at company or platoon level, pretty much it was Russian top brass that was commenting on it, if I am reading you right, did they use BMP 3`s in combat during the Chechnya conflicts? Also they are still producing BMP 2`s correct.
Calibre of the IFV gun
- Thread starter Mangusta CBT
- Start date
Have you looked at the CTA ammunition? And the gun?
Yes, they was using BMP-3 during active phase quite extencively. No, they dont produce BMP-2, at least not for own army. However, they plan to upgrade some of BMP-2's which could be sometimes refered as "producing".
Yes, I have. It still occupies significantly more volume per shot than the 30x173mm or 40mm Super Shot. It's also not nearly as well proven as the 30x173mm or Bushmaster series.
Looks like an interesting design though. Probably good for nations that can afford it and don't have an existing investment in another round.
20-45mm weapons are applicable to most military vehicles including land, sea and air. A weapon in this calibre is very effective against anything but tanks. Higher calibres are generally reserved for tanks or bunkerbusting role as infantry and light armoured vehicles are so to speak easily killable by a 20-45mm weapon however the infantry and light armoured vehicles have the benefit of being easily manouverable and hard to pinpoint if they are using appropriate tactics.
There was only during that time frame maybe between 30 or forty of them that were manufactured, which unit was operating them.
Cant find it fast, but semi-official statistic tells 9 BMP-3 was lost during 1st Chechen war. There are reports what there was only single regiment (RUA "battalion") armed with BMP-3 and it took heavy losses. There is little info about armor in 2nd Chechen war, but one is clear - the losses was an order of magnitude lower.
http://otvaga2004.narod.ru/Otvaga/caleidoscope/russian-bmp_01.htm (use translator) is a first-hand experience of conscript served on BMP-3 during 98-99 , allbeit not in Chechnya. Take in mind, it was first batches of BMP-3, the unit wasnt completely ready & trained for it, 90x chaos in RUA, etc. On the end he notes what his unit should have sended to Chechnya just after his service ends.
Thank you for this information
Interesting discussion... I found some news about advantage of 30mm over 25 and 40 mm in Spookey Gunship in US AF spec-op command: they change 25 and 40mm to 30mm Bushmaister now. It's the best caliber against infantry they say. http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123039626&page=5
Citation:
"Protection
The BMP-3 armoured hull and turret are made of aluminium alloys. The most vulnerable sections are protected by spaced armour ensuring state-of-the art ballistic protection level which meets modern requirements for similar-type vehicles". http://www.kurganmash.ru/en/machines/bmp3/serial_bmp3/
"The Puma’s inherent protection affords its crew what is currently the world’s best combined protection against mines, shaped charges and KE ammunition as well as NBC weapons. To support this capability, it features protection technologies of the latest generation". http://www.psm-spz.com/en/
- The problem is that not only Ruskies but also the Germanskies dont bother to show the real capabilities of their IFV's frontal armor.
However grounding the comparizon between the firepower of BMP-3 with Puma on the base of capability of 30mm BMP-3 MG and 30mm of Puma- is not fair, bcz BMP-3 has in addition 100mm gun espacially against the beasts like Puma.
Also the effective range of Puma's MK30-2/ABM autocannon is only 3000 m while the maximum range of aimed fire of the BMP-3's 30mm is 4000m.
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BMP 3`s cannon may have a range of 4000 meters for it`s cannon, but that is not a combat effective range to engage IFVs, whats the tracer burnout for the 30 mm projectiles. This range was established for it`s anti armor missile.
The BMP-3 may have a 100mm but this weapon is not intended to have an AT capability besides the ATGMs which it is carrying.
With the 3UOF17 (HE-FRAG) and HEF/MOD.96 (HE-FRAG) rounds the 2A70 100mm gun is designed to give additional firepower against infantry, fire positions and structures.
I agree that the 3UBK10 ATGM family should work against any IFV but if you have to use your ATGMs to counter enemy IFVs something went wrong.
The 2A72 30mm remains the main anti IFV weapon of the BMP-3 and I read that the effectice range of it is up to 2000m.
With the 3UOF17 (HE-FRAG) and HEF/MOD.96 (HE-FRAG) rounds the 2A70 100mm gun is designed to give additional firepower against infantry, fire positions and structures.
I agree that the 3UBK10 ATGM family should work against any IFV but if you have to use your ATGMs to counter enemy IFVs something went wrong.
The 2A72 30mm remains the main anti IFV weapon of the BMP-3 and I read that the effectice range of it is up to 2000m.
I only repeated what the manufacturer of BMP-3 says (see the h-reference above). Indeed the another source explanes that 2000 m - is for subcaliber munition and 4000 - for high fragmented.
The 100 mm HE rounds do not have a 4000 meter distance either, can you imagine the super elevation on that.
In reality the range is even more than that. BMP-3 100mm gun indeed can elevate much higher than any tank gun, in fact it can be considered as mortar.The 100 mm HE rounds do not have a 4000 meter distance either, can you imagine the super elevation on that.
That would be very difficult to get a ballistic solution at that range, even in a main battle tank you would be pushing it if not firing KE penetrators. At that range you would be better calling in artillery. Whats the danger close on a 100 mm HE round.
When we speak about IFV to IFV engagemant, so why not use 100mm MG if it does work against any western IFV (exept Israeli Akhzarit however) even with its HE? In addition I must note that the maximum range of aimed fire of its 100-mm gun-launcher with projectiles - is also 4000 m (you can found its number on its official site http://www.kurganmash.ru/en/machines/bmp3/serial_bmp3/ ) You will naturally enjoy when see at the video how good its gun works on daylight as at night: http://www.kurganmash.ru/en/machines/bmp3u/fire_power/vesna-k/AAA style.
My reply was intended for the argument that if the 30mm does not work against enemy IFVs than the BMP-3 has its 100mm as backup.