Brazil building own nuclear submarine

[mexsoldier]

brazil , nuclear bombs in soccer balls?

i think brazil is doing this only because caution, venezuela is getting dangerous neighbor, brazil has enough resources to start a nuclear program, but it could be the end of the '' relatively peaceful'' south america, if brazil starts a nuclear program, venezuela will do the same.

 

[contedicavour]

.

it sounds funny, but chile may be next,

considering the fact that chile has already acquired Scorpene-SSKs & is in talks with france to buy either SMX-23 or barracuda SSN.

i wonder why all of a sudden these south-american countries r vying for naval power, that too all of a sudden.


.

Chile has finished renovating its SSK force for now, with the new Scorpene and the 2 German 209s renovated. Any follow-on acquisition is only speculation so far. They have though a strange tendency to procure from different countries batches of 2 subs : Oberons and 209s, then Scorpene... so the next acquisition could come from Germany again (214s to replace 209s).

cheers

 

[sashikanth]

gr8 goin Brazil.:nutkick

 

[RubiconNZ]

gr8 goin Brazil.:nutkick

What is the point of all your one liners? Surely you can think of something intelligent to add to the conversation, or are you just trying to get your post count up?

 

[Firehorse]

I hope this article will make the whole thing a lot clearer to some:

..Brazil's Defense Minister, Nelson Jobim, spoke at a military conference in Rio de Janeiro in support of building a nuclear submarine, claiming that such a weapons system was needed to defend recently discovered off-shore oil reserves.
"When you have a large natural source of wealth discovered in the Atlantic, it's obvious you need the means to protect it," Jobim said.
The Brazilian military had sought the development of a nuclear submarine during the period of the dictatorship, which ruled the country from 1964 to 1985. .. Last July, Lula announced the appropriation of US$ 540 million to fund the navy's nuclear enrichment program, the first installment of what is expected to be more than US$ 1.2 billion for the building of a nuclear submarine.
http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/10003/1/

If their friend India desires SSNs, why not Brazil? There are a few unsettled old disputes in S.America, and it shouldn't really surprise anyone that they want nuclear subs. How many people know that, besides large coastline, Brazil has more land area than the continental US?

 

[kilo]

Do you think Brazil would come up with a totally new design or do you think they will base their sub on another design.

 

[Firehorse]

IMO, if India can get help from Russia, Brazil can get help from France- their São Paulo CV is an ex-FN Foch.

"The transference of the Ship-Aerodrome São Paulo to the Operative Sector of the Navy adds to our naval power an important magnification in its ability of defense of the Brazilian interests at sea. A country as ours, possessing an extensive coast, with more than 7 thousand kilometers of coast, requires a naval power compatible with its stature in the international scene. Today, as before, Brazil is concerned about implementing concrete measures that offer the nation the guarantee of respect to its sovereignty. .. Few countries, even today, have the capacity to operate with efficiency in the high seas. It is important that Brazil continues to be one of them."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAe_São_Paulo

If they are to get it sooner (& for le$$) rather than later, then India is a good example to follow. Future will tell- I can't say with 100% certainty what their design process will be based on.

Brazil Eyes Nuclear Sub to Defend Oil

 

[Firehorse]

The US is jumping on the bandwagon! I guess the goal is to counterbalance Venezuela.
Lockheed Martin To Modernize Brazilian Navy Submarine Force

Brazil is seeking to buy military technology from France that could help it become the first country in Latin America to have a nuclear submarine, the Defense Ministry said on Monday. ..Brazil currently has five conventionally powered submarines.
If an agreement results in the construction of a nuclear submarine, then "Brazil will surely become the first country in Latin America to have one," said Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Washington-based Arms Control Association, a nonpartisan research group.
Ramos said Brazil wants to establish a strategic partnership with France to transfer technology. France is interested in Brazilian know-how on jungle warfare and "the use of electronic equipment in the humidity of tropical rain forests," he said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/28/AR2008012801801.html

Possible Brazil-France Alliance Confirmed

 

[Manfred2]

Which do yo think would be more useful for blockading Venezula in the event of war, a little carrier or an SSN?

Venezuala has f-16s, by the way.

 

[kilo]

Unless Brazil buys F-18s or navalized Rafale they can't do much against F-16. Also I'd be more worried about Venezuela's Su-30mk2. So if they do get new aircraft for thier carrier they can't do it half way.

 

[AegisFC]

Which do yo think would be more useful for blockading Venezula in the event of war, a little carrier or an SSN?

Venezuala has f-16s, by the way.

Yeah but can Venezuela get enough parts for their F-16's to keep them operational without cannibalizing parts?

 

[Firehorse]

IMO, they would just be very happy with Su-30s and may sell their old F-16s for parts. i don't have any inside info. on that. There is a regional arms race taking off- even without blockading scenarios everyone wants to look tough!

 

[swerve]

IMO, they would just be very happy with Su-30s and may sell their old F-16s for parts. ...

US conditions of sale forbid it without specific US permits, & the conditions apply to buyers as well as sellers. The F-16s are only useful as parts sources to an existing operator which is already under embargo, & AFAIK there aren't any at the moment.

 

[Firehorse]

Well, Mr. Chavez treatened to sell them to Iran or China- despite prohibitions. The embargo on spare parts was imposed in violation of the contract- according to his reasoning- so they'll "get even". They could just sell those planes to black market dealers if there should be dire need for them. Ideally, the US should buy them back, upgrade and then resell them to those AFs that may want them. Indeed, the USAF itself could use them for AD/adversary roles while the F-15s are being "inspected" and/or permanently grounded!

 

[swerve]

Well, Mr. Chavez treatened to sell them to Iran or China- despite prohibitions. The embargo on spare parts was imposed in violation of the contract- according to his reasoning- so they'll "get even". They could just sell those planes to black market dealers if there should be dire need for them. Ideally, the US should buy them back, upgrade and then resell them to those AFs that may want them. Indeed, the USAF itself could use them for AD/adversary roles while the F-15s are being "inspected" and/or permanently grounded!

You didn't get it. There's nothing physically to stop Venezuela selling them, but there's nobody out there to buy them. A black market only exists where there are buyers.

The USA will not buy them back, for obvious political reasons.

 

[Firehorse]

I know, but theoreticaly it could happen. If, for instance, Chile or Mexico (both are current or future F-16 operators) improve their relations with Venezuela, then, "if there is a will, there is a way!"
Let's get to the topic or just take a break intil there is more is in open sources about Brazilian SSN project!

 

[gf0012-aust]

I know, but theoreticaly it could happen. If, for instance, Chile or Mexico (both are current or future F-16 operators) improve their relations with Venezuela, then, "if there is a will, there is a way!"

You are obviously clueles as to the impact it would have on other FMS sales to either country if they breached FMS binding contractual obligations. Chile in particular would suffer through other military sales as some of their other foreign equipment is via NATO countries. There is an agreement that binds all NATO members on FMS that use other countries components.

Let's get to the topic or just take a break intil there is more is in open sources about Brazilian SSN project!

Considering that your last coment was to a Moderator, I'm guessing that he is fully clued up as to when and what is the margin of error to get back on topic. If you want to continue to deflect debate off topic, then start another thread. If you want to start another thread on this distraction, then I suggest that you do some homework on FMS and especially on the geopolitical relationship of Chile and Mexico to Venuzuela.

 

[Salty Dog]

The Brazilian carrier aviation and SSN programs are taking more than a lions share of an already small budget. Brazil has built frigates, corvettes and SSK. They should stick to those and develop a stronger MPA program.

 

[Salty Dog]

You are obviously clueles as to the impact it would have on other FMS sales to either country if they breached FMS binding contractual obligations. Chile in particular would suffer through other military sales as some of their other foreign equipment is via NATO countries. There is an agreement that binds all NATO members on FMS that use other countries components.

FMS contracts explicitly forbid transfer of US origin equipment without USG approval. Case in point was Kuwait's sale of A-4KU Skyhawks to Brazil years ago. That sale required USG approval.

In the case of NATO equipment (and even non-NATO), there may be US origin equipment that will require USG approval. There also may be equipment for NATO use only that will require approval of ALL NATO members (even more difficult than just the USG). All the NATO origin ships transferred to Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, etc. arrived stripped of much their C3I gear for those reasons.

 

[Firehorse]

Argentina, Brazil to jointly build n-subs: ministers
..an accord "to build a bi-national company to make the reactor" that would propel the submarines.
The Argentines are to bring their experience in building nuclear reactors to the deal, while the Brazilians will apply their knowledge in atomic combustion, he said.
The French input comes from a "strategic alliance" offered by French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
During discussions with Sarkozy last week, "we agreed to create good conditions for a bilateral company aimed at the non-nuclear part of the submarine,"..

I guess that this could be a win-win situation for the parties involved. jointly they can pull it off, no doubt!