AWACS Performance in electronic warfare environment?
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Correct.Totoro said:
Sorry for my error I just copied the data from the wrong row of my spreadsheet giving "range in nm=1.05 (second root of altitude in feet)" which is more appropriate to optical systems.
Chris
birdofprey
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a question..
all PAF's new MRCAs will be equiped with link-16 which can share data with AEW&CA, and what ever the Erieye would be able to see will be appeard on the linked jet from distance up to 450km....
a question now.. will all IAF MRCAs have the same ability??
all PAF's new MRCAs will be equiped with link-16 which can share data with AEW&CA, and what ever the Erieye would be able to see will be appeard on the linked jet from distance up to 450km....
a question now.. will all IAF MRCAs have the same ability??
Nah, we have our Mini Awacs, which are known as Sukhois. Each sukhoi can share it's 400km scan range with upto 8 fighter jets. 1 squadron of Sukhoi = 96 non Sukhoi jets with Awac scan range. I am not even counting utilizing the Phalcons we have to multiply the radar grid....
Sukhois can also track 60 targets and automatically target the 8 most threatening.
Sukhois can also track 60 targets and automatically target the 8 most threatening.
birdofprey
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oh here we go again with a Genius!! you are Exaggerating your su-30 performance as if it is a freakin raptor.. max range for su-30 radar is not even close to 250km, and a target with small RCS like F-16 would be detected close to 180 km when it is exposing it CFTs and external fuel tanks.. and as far as your over estimation goes about linking data with other mkis only 4 can be linked at the same time! :lul
"For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21, for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140–160 km.
The radar can track 15 air targets and engage the 4 most threatening targets simultaneously [2]. These targets include from cruise missiles to even motionless helicopters.
The Su-30MKI can function as a 'mini-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to at least 4 other aircraft." wikipedia!!!!!!
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Those are tier 1 MKI's. Tier 3 MKI's are rolling out now. They don't use outdated N011M radar anymore.
Sukhoi radars weren't even fully turned on in Cope India 2004, and 2006. And now against the British. But they were victorious every time.
http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/23941/india-britain-set-up-midair-marathon.html
Current generation Sukhois use higher powered version of the N011M. Which has a detection range of 350 km's and a search range of 400+ km's. IT can even detect still objects like helicopters and such.
Tier1
The Su-30MKI features an all-weather, digital multi-mode, dual frequency, forward facing NIIP N-011M radar which has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. The radar can track and engage 20 targets and engage the 8 most threatening simultaneously. These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. The radar is combined with a helmet mounted sight system, which allows the pilot to turn his head in a 90º field of view, lock on to a target and launch the TVC-capable R-73RDM2 missile. The radar's forward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation. The N-011M ensures a 20 metre resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km.
In March 1998, the IAF signed a contract with the French electronics manufacturer, Sextant Avionique, to add six liquid colour displays, five MFD 55s and one MFD 66, for both the pilot and his WSO (Weapons System Officer), the Totem inertial guidance system with the GPS technology and the VEH 3000 holographic HUD. Officials from Sexatant have acknowledged that they have already validated the GPS system on Sukhoi aircraft. The six LCDs have a wide-screen and are shielded to make it readable even in bright sunlight. All the flight information is displayed on these four LCD displays which include one for piloting and navigation, a tactical situation indicator, and two for display systems information including operating modes and overall operation status. The aircraft is fitted with a satellite navigation system, which permits it to make flights in all weathers; day and night. The navigation complex comprises an inertial directional system and short- and long-range radio navigation systems. It also has a laser attitude and a heading reference system. An automatic flight control system makes all phases of its flight automatic, including the combat employment of its weapons.
Tier 3
????
Sukhoi radars weren't even fully turned on in Cope India 2004, and 2006. And now against the British. But they were victorious every time.
http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/23941/india-britain-set-up-midair-marathon.html
Current generation Sukhois use higher powered version of the N011M. Which has a detection range of 350 km's and a search range of 400+ km's. IT can even detect still objects like helicopters and such.
Tier1
The Su-30MKI features an all-weather, digital multi-mode, dual frequency, forward facing NIIP N-011M radar which has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. The radar can track and engage 20 targets and engage the 8 most threatening simultaneously. These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. The radar is combined with a helmet mounted sight system, which allows the pilot to turn his head in a 90º field of view, lock on to a target and launch the TVC-capable R-73RDM2 missile. The radar's forward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation. The N-011M ensures a 20 metre resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km.
In March 1998, the IAF signed a contract with the French electronics manufacturer, Sextant Avionique, to add six liquid colour displays, five MFD 55s and one MFD 66, for both the pilot and his WSO (Weapons System Officer), the Totem inertial guidance system with the GPS technology and the VEH 3000 holographic HUD. Officials from Sexatant have acknowledged that they have already validated the GPS system on Sukhoi aircraft. The six LCDs have a wide-screen and are shielded to make it readable even in bright sunlight. All the flight information is displayed on these four LCD displays which include one for piloting and navigation, a tactical situation indicator, and two for display systems information including operating modes and overall operation status. The aircraft is fitted with a satellite navigation system, which permits it to make flights in all weathers; day and night. The navigation complex comprises an inertial directional system and short- and long-range radio navigation systems. It also has a laser attitude and a heading reference system. An automatic flight control system makes all phases of its flight automatic, including the combat employment of its weapons.
Tier 3
????
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birdofprey
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- #47
i have to now use big big letters to explaine this bharti raksha guy..
MKI RADAR'S MAX TRACKING RANGE FOR SMALL RCS PLANES SUCH AS F-16 IS 160KM!!!!!!!
MKI RADAR'S MAX TRACKING RANGE FOR SMALL RCS PLANES SUCH AS F-16 IS 160KM!!!!!!!
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Everyone needs to settle down or I will lock the thread for a few days.
I'm cool. But the guy above me I think has an attitude problem... I'll try my best to debate profressionaly and in a proper manner.
I don't care who thinks who started it. It stops now or I'll lock the post.
birdofprey
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no i don want to debate with you anymore... lol chill
since the thread is about AWACS and AEW&CA i want to know if the indian Phalcon can data link other IAF planes and will it use Link-16 or ... for get about mki
Don't bring up IAF MCRA unless you don't want to talk about their capabilities.
If it was strictly Phalcon only, we are getting those in the middle of this year. 3 of them in fact.
The exact specification of the Indian Phalcon system is unknown, but it has certainly been developed considerably from the version sold to Chile in 1994. Whether the Indian Air Force will be supplied with the ‘full-strength’ Phalcon, equipped with a phased-array radar, phased-array IFF, ESM/ELINT and CSM/COMINT, which functions as a sophisticated intelligence gathering, as well as AEW aircraft, remains to be seen. The Phalcon system is believed to be capable of tracking up to 60 targets at ranges between 435-500 miles, giving the Indian Air Force the ability to survey large areas of Pakistan from within Indian airspace. Currently, the first aircraft is scheduled to be delivered in Dec 07, followed by the second nine months later and the last aircraft around Apr 09. Israel has also agreed to supply India with high-resolution pictures from its Ofeq-5 photo-reconnaissance satellite of the Kashmir region and the line of control area between India and Pakistan. Finally, in 2003, Israel sold India a number of Aerostat balloons, equipped with phased array radars that are permanently deployed along the border with Pakistan.
The indian version will be mounted on an IL-76 or IL-78.
birdofprey
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oh man.... how does this answer my question??? and stop Plagiarizing!!
again will they use data link-16 or what???
The long awaited AWACS (Air Borne Warning and Control Systems) is eventually being inducted in the Indian Air Force. Israeli Phalcon Radar is being integrated on the Russian IL-76 A-50 Beriev Transport jets under Indian supervision and the software programmes are being written by Indian specialists. The Indian endeavour in obtaining this vigorously pursued and revolutionary augmentation to country’s air defence network has not been without loss of resources, lives and a period of two decades when it comes to fruition hopefully in 2005. An indigenous and ambitious project of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Airborne Surveillance Warning and Control Systems (ASWAC) in the past was halted by the government when in 1999 the “experimental system” crashed in the mother AVRO aircraft in the hills of Tamil Nadu. The accident was caused by the rotodome?? shearing off and hitting the tail of the aircraft. The IAF then tested the Russian AE-50 system, a variant of the IL-76 aircraft and found it unsatisfactory. The Israeli option seemingly coincided with the cancellation, under strident opposition from US government, of an identical and highly advanced, joint Chinese-Israeli development programme. The Indian programme survived a similar opposition from US largely due to a favourable tilt in the American stance and Israeli lobbying.
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A critical appraisal of this acquisition must be done in the light of the foremost requirement of an Air Defence Network. Its purpose is to provide an adequate early warning of the airborne hostile intruder so that a timely interception can be undertaken before it penetrates airspace sought to be brought under control. And in the conduct of defensive counter air operations the ultimate goal would be to suppress all opposition in the designated airspace. During peace time and in advancing battle zones the requirements remain same. In the Indian context the extent of this warning is restricted for low flying vehicles operating below Radar cover due to the inherent limitation of a ground based system not able to detect up to desired ranges. The benefits of the “Over the Horizon Radar” accrue to the Phalcon AWACS, by operating at about 30,000 feet and thus being able to monitor low level activity in the air space up to ranges of 500 km. On India’s western borders, such surveillance over sea will yield optimum results in reporting both air and sea activity. Over land, advantages of detection ranges may have to be marginally forsaken to protect the AWACS aircraft against SAMS but ranges of 400 km are possible with tactical routing. Formidable gains in detection ranges are most likely across the Himalayan Ranges on the northern borders where Radar Units could not be located due to an inhospitable terrain.
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An AWACS is a control centre which can track 100 targets and intercept at least half of them simultaneously with aircraft and SAMS; each engagement closely monitored and reported in real time. The sobriquet “Force multiplier” justifies as economies of effort and resources are nearly quadrupled. The operations are supported by onboard ECM (electronic counter measures) and ECCM (electronic counter counter measures) systems for electronic warfare. Passive Comint and Elint devices record data up to1000 km and “data link” to ground stations. Although an ESM package is incorporated for self protection, this expensive and crucially important platform should not be operated without suitable fighter protection especially in a hostile environment.
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The AWACS’ ability to deal with threats from missiles must be seen within the context of the composite mother network. The Phalcon radar is designed to scan from ground level to about 40,000 feet and all moving objects in this envelope of air space are detectable except for objects returning a smaller radar cross section. A low flying cruise missile for example has a radar cross section of about .005 metre at a range of 200 km and may thus reduce the extent of early warning and logically the US is upgrading its space assets to detect such intrusion. In cases of high trajectory incoming ICBM/ IRBM, other ground based radars would have detected the missiles well before they start painting on the Phalcon Radar. A separate project on the installation of the “Big Pine” Radar system is already on the anvil for detecting missile threats. This acquisition is being seen as the forerunner to the futuristic systems for the active missile defences in the Indian air space which are currently absent.
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The selection of the IL-76 aircraft as the airborne platform for the Radar is an appropriate choice as the Indian Air Force possesses adequate experience and infrastructure to operate the aircraft. The advanced technology dispenses with the rotating Radar. ?However, with the induction limited to only three systems for an equal number of aircraft, the schedules of AWACS operations will have to be limited to and kept focused for developing hostile scenarios only.
http://www.ipcs.org/Military_articles2.jsp?action=showView&kValue=1356&keyArticle=1020&status=article&mod=a
Data Link specs unknown. But it is the latest state of the art Phalcon system.
birdofprey
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:hitwall :hitwall
dude listen what i am trying to ask... link-16 is a data link that can transfer data to other systems which has link-16.. i belive this is a stantard nato link system..
no please dont make me hit the wall again, DOES YOUR MIGHTY PHALCON HAS THE SAME LINK-16 SYSTEM OR OTHER THAT CAN LET OTHER PLANES USE ITS RADAR AND FIRE MISSILES AT FOES WITHOUT EVEN HAVEING TO TURN ON THERE OWN RADAR???:shudder
dude listen what i am trying to ask... link-16 is a data link that can transfer data to other systems which has link-16.. i belive this is a stantard nato link system..
no please dont make me hit the wall again, DOES YOUR MIGHTY PHALCON HAS THE SAME LINK-16 SYSTEM OR OTHER THAT CAN LET OTHER PLANES USE ITS RADAR AND FIRE MISSILES AT FOES WITHOUT EVEN HAVEING TO TURN ON THERE OWN RADAR???:shudder
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