they don’t need to get the carriers. Just the howitzer modules.
Not unless you wanna start eating into the CRV fleet. Of cause, they've also tested the RCH155 artillery module on trucks which might offer a cheaper option than Boxers...
Mark_Evans
Member
The RCH155 is looking pretty good especially tied to the Boxer platform. The days of towed artillery are over i believe.
Seeing as we have production line open already, it would make much more sense to just increase the order rather than introduce another artillery variant.
The Swiss are reported to be putting the artillery module (AGM) on Piranha 10x10s, & it's been pictured on IVECO 8x8 lorries, but that's described as a "design concept" on the KNDS website, which to me implies that it's not actually been built.
AGM Iveco 8x8
Bluey 006
Active Member
Agreed! While generally I hold a favourable view toward wheeled artillery, given the multitude of competing priorities not sure if there is room for tracked, wheeled, and towed 155mm. Especially as the K9 production line is still open.
Where there is a glaring gap is mortar. If we were to add a wheeled indirect fire capability a turreted 120mm mortar might make more sense. Nemo or AMOS on Boxer (or other) chassis may be better suited for rapid deployment, amphibious and littoral island hoping operations. Complementing the HIMARS, M777 howitzer and K9 Thunder, with a protected mobile platform that offers new different capabilities.
I would suggest that we can't do away with towed artillery just yet. Its ability to be airlifted into jungle, mountainous, and swampy terrain accross PNG and the broader Indo-Pacific is invaluable
Re towed artillery, in our region, I believe that even a small, A Res arty regt should be equipped with 105mm light guns. I have stated this before, and shouted down, but there are areas very close to Australia where SPGs will be 100% useless. Helo deployed 105s could make a huge difference
If I recall a battery of 105 mm Hamel were in support of 3 RAR when the battalion was parachute qualified.
Agree a light weight artillery system probably still has a place
Maybe it’s a 120mm mortar going forward!
Cheers S
Are there plans to add the 120 mil mortar to the A.D.F boxer ,has been done elsewhere
www.defenceconnect.com.au
Patria, Rheinmetall debut Boxer mortar variant in United Kingdom
A Boxer Armoured Mortar Variant prototype has been unveiled by Finnish defence manufacturer Patria and German defence manufacturer Rheinmetall.
Neither these or the SPG version will be of any great utility in the northern Australia wet season if taken off bitumen. It’s almost like that environment needs its own system.Are there plans to add the 120 mil mortar to the A.D.F boxer ,has been done elsewhere
Patria, Rheinmetall debut Boxer mortar variant in United Kingdom
A Boxer Armoured Mortar Variant prototype has been unveiled by Finnish defence manufacturer Patria and German defence manufacturer Rheinmetall.
Does the Australian Army not drive G-Wagons, ASLAVs and MAN trucks around in Northern Australia? How would boxer mortar / SPH variants be significantly different from an 8x8 truck? Also, since they're acquiring K9/10 there is a tracked SPH in the ADF.
There are no such announced plans or projects for the Australian Army. I think one issue is that for Australia the Boxer is really a cavalry vehicle with a limited number of joint fires vehicles (maybe ambulances too). For Germany and Britain it is primarily an infantry carrier but with many specialised variants accompanying those carriers. For the sole Australian (planned) mechanised infantry battalion those troops will be carried in tracked IFVs (supported by tracked SPHs) so, if anything, an IFV mortar vehicle would make more sense.Are there plans to add the 120 mil mortar to the A.D.F boxer ,has been done elsewhere
Patria, Rheinmetall debut Boxer mortar variant in United Kingdom
A Boxer Armoured Mortar Variant prototype has been unveiled by Finnish defence manufacturer Patria and German defence manufacturer Rheinmetall.
Their approach also seems to be prioritizing strike at much longer range than afforded by mortars or howitzers.
As argued above, replacing 7 Bde’s artillery with SPHs made in Australia could make sense (rather than a new wheeled type whether that be a howitzer or a mortar).
Yes they do, but not in areas effected by the wet season.
I will find some pics for you.
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Army has a motorised mortar capability, with the M125AS3 81mm mortar in-service with 3RAR (and until recently) 6RAR.
This however is due to exit service (along with the remainder of the M113AS4 fleet) in 2029 on current planning.
Despite this, Army retains a requirement for a mobile mortar capability. According to DTR Magazine (December 2024 edition), Army has been trialling the Scorpion self-propelled mortar system with a range of vehicles including the M113AS4 flat bed logistics vehicle, Hawkei and the 6x6 G Wagon. Army is also investigating integrating this system on a robotic unmanned ground vehicle, of unknown make.
Army needs a mobile fire support system that can operate regardless of season, weather or terrain that provide BLOS fires, area suppression, night fighting and obscurant effects. It also requires a fire support system that can be employed in littoral scenarios “straight off the boat” without any substantial set up time that both manpack mortars and towed artillery (of any kind) require.
There is no known formal project as yet to acquire a mobile mortar after LAND 400 Ph.3 had the mobile mortar capability axed on cost grounds, but the requirement is there and Army is actively assessing possible solutions.
Aside from it’s substantial rate of fire and reported speed in and out of action, the Scorpion mobile mortar system can be employed in mobile or fixed roles as required, is extremely quick in and out of action when mounted and has the capability to provide either 81mm or 120mm mortar fires via an integral quick change barrel system.
And depending on the vehicle it is fitted to, it can also meet that overwhelmingly important “PNG Highlands” requirement so popular hereabouts, being helicopter air-lift capable…
Might the Rheinmetall Weisel 2 120mm mortar system be a viable option ?
some positives:it’s a tracked armoured vehicle, can shoot and scoot, is operated while crew is under armour, could be produced locally by Rheinmetall Australia who worked on the ACW Weisel, can be transported underslung and suits smaller landing craft, was originally designed to operate with mobile light forces.
Other possible advantages, Weisel 2’s other main variant is a light weight AA system though these might need to be refocused on anti drone use,
an APC version was produced and tested for an American project , while the ACW version was built in Australia so other options exist to support mobile forces.
some negatives : short range 8000 metres, lightweight armour, requires special rounds, both new vehicle and mortar types with acquisition and training costs, could enough units be purchased to integrate into Reserve units.
some positives:it’s a tracked armoured vehicle, can shoot and scoot, is operated while crew is under armour, could be produced locally by Rheinmetall Australia who worked on the ACW Weisel, can be transported underslung and suits smaller landing craft, was originally designed to operate with mobile light forces.
Other possible advantages, Weisel 2’s other main variant is a light weight AA system though these might need to be refocused on anti drone use,
an APC version was produced and tested for an American project , while the ACW version was built in Australia so other options exist to support mobile forces.
some negatives : short range 8000 metres, lightweight armour, requires special rounds, both new vehicle and mortar types with acquisition and training costs, could enough units be purchased to integrate into Reserve units.
Honestly everyone.. I would think that any tracked or wheeled motor or frankly and variant of any loins needed in the future will come from the redback or or Boxer.. which have factories set up to build these vehicles and will need extra orders to keep them going… defence is a business it needs orders! If the government doesn’t want to spend the dollars use the M113
They do operate in northern Australia but once you leave the bitumen in the wet season with a metre or more of rain at times ( eg Karratha had 270 mils of rain in one day this month) many roads in the black soil regions become impassable at times even for tracked vehicles. Add to that the distances and tracked vehicles run into logistics issues. Something like the Archer SPH on the Volvo articulated truck might work.