Australian Army Discussions and Updates

winnyfield

New Member
Improved rail (or modular) system for the F88. This is the A3 isn't it? Hope it's the Steyr A3 design; looks much more flexible, more space up front. Might even end up looking like the Tavor.

http://www.adi-limited.com/site.asp?page=296
Thales to deliver Australian Defence Force’s next generation integrated rifle system

Released on 08/09/2008

Thales Australia and the Defence Materiel Organisation have signed the first of a threestage contract for the enhancement of the Australian Defence Force’s F88 Austeyr rifle system.

The Austeyr is the ADF standard issue assault rifle, and has been in service since 1989. The rifle system fleet is locally manufactured and maintained by Thales at the company’s Soldier Systems Development and Support Centre at the Small Arms Factory in Lithgow, NSW.

The Austeyr upgrade program forms part of the Land 125 Soldier Combat System project. The result of the upgrade program will ensure that the ADF continues to be equipped with the best available small arms weapons system for the protection of its servicemen and women on deployment around the world.

The contract will deliver the initial design and production prototypes for the enhanced F88 Austeyr integrated rifle system. Design qualification and production are planned for implementation in later stages.

The design development of the weapon system aims to open its architecture and extend inservice life. Specific benefits are likely to include new optics, improved ability to acquire and engage targets, and enhanced integration of after-market sights and accessories. The enhanced Austeyr is expected to become a core sub-system of a range of innovative systems and capabilities currently under development. The result will be a reliable, flexible and world-class weapon for soldiers in the field.

The contract also builds upon the strategic small arms capabilities established at Thales’s facility in Lithgow, which has a long history of high quality small arms manufacture dating back to 1912. This small arms pedigree is now integrated with the company’s systems architectures, engineering and integration capabilities at the Thales Soldier Systems Development and Support Centre, where the development of this next generation rifle system will be undertaken.

Chris Jenkins, Thales Australia’s managing director, said the contract marked the beginning of a new phase in the impressive history of small arms development in Australia.

"Thales is proud to be associated with the ADF’s soldier modernisation program, and this contract is testament to the skills, creativity, and engineering excellence of our team at Lithgow and our Land & Joint Systems division."
 

splat

Banned Member
hello everyone

as far as the adf and generally australian industry being in the midst of a trade shortage,would the governments closing down of tech schools a while back have anything to do with such shortages.
 

jacktar

New Member
hello everyone

as far as the adf and generally australian industry being in the midst of a trade shortage,would the governments closing down of tech schools a while back have anything to do with such shortages.
It's not quite as simple as that. Whilst closing down tech schools like Nirimba etc does have an impact, it's as much to do with things such as the economic boom in China, closing DFRDB, Gen Y work attitudes and a range of economic and social factors.

Interestingly, there is anecdotal evidence that in the last couple of months since the financial markets meltdown, that inquiries for recruitment to the ADF have picked up. In troubled times a secure employer is always a plus.
 

winnyfield

New Member
Credit crunch, drop in commodity and energy prices; probably means that companies aren't looking to take on employees anytime soon. Those ADF tradies that may have thought of leaving might be willing to stay a little while longer.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Credit crunch, drop in commodity and energy prices; probably means that companies aren't looking to take on employees anytime soon. Those ADF tradies that may have thought of leaving might be willing to stay a little while longer.
The export industry just got a lot more popular.
 

splat

Banned Member
with the value of the aussie dollar going south and the prospect of a world recession,whats the likely impact for the new artillery pieces army is to soon aquire?will there be less that will be bought or will government provide additional funds to allow whats currently planned?
 

Navor86

Member
Can anyone provide any Pics of the F88A4 Version. Ive seen th ADI broschure,but some claim that the pics show the A3 Variant, When using google some say that F88A4 is the same like the Austrian Steyr A3.
So im totally confused
 

winnyfield

New Member
ADF + US Joint LIght tactical Vehicle Project (JLTV)

For the record, the armored light vehicle component (eg. Mowag Eagle, Iveco LMV etc) of Land 121 hasn't been completed yet.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24568421-31477,00.html

Patrick Walters, National security editor | October 29, 2008

AUSTRALIA will join the US in developing a new generation of protected light army vehicles, which will provide troops with far better protection against the ever-growing threat posed by roadside bombs.

The army is also to get an extra 81 upgraded M113 armoured personnel carriers at a cost of $220million.

The land force is now well on the way to implementing a $4.6billion overhaul of its vehicle fleet with the key focus on protecting soldiers from the potent threat posed by roadside bombs and other high explosive devices.

Over the next decade the army will acquire under the Land 121 project about 7000 new vehicles and trailers, ranging from station wagons to heavy trucks.

Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon is expected to announce today that Defence will join the technology demonstration phase of the US Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) program by which the Pentagon plans to replace more than 60,000 Humvee vehicles in the US army and marine corps from 2012.

The threat posed by improvised explosive devices (IEDs) has prompted a rethink by the US and its allies on how best to transport and protect troops in combat zones.

Both the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts have exposed the inadequate design of older technology trucks and vehicles in the face of increasingly powerful new IEDs being used by insurgents.

The JLTV program that Australia will join is planned to provide a more survivable and versatile light vehicle which can carry a greater payload.

For the Australian army the new light mobility vehicles

will perform combat support roles including command, liaison and light battlefield resupply.

Mr Fitzgibbon says a final decision on whether Australia will acquire the JLTV will be made once the vehicles have passed key development and testing milestones in 2010.

Through the program Australia and the US will invest heavily in new materials and technologies which will give the best possible protection for troops on combat operations.

Mr Fitzgibbon says that should the JLTV be selected, there would be opportunities for Australian industry to manufacture vehicle trailers as well as providing maintenance support for the new fleet.

The Defence Materiel Organisation today will formally sign a $350million contract with Mercedes-Benz to supply 1200 new G-wagons, a two-tonne all-terrain vehicle, which will partly replace the existing Land Rover fleet. The M113 upgrade is already delivering 350 upgraded vehicles and the extra 81 M113s will be delivered to the army's newly raised battalion, 7 RAR, and 5 RAR, another mechanised infantry battalion currently based in Darwin.

The DMO has also signed a new contract for an additional 293 Bushmaster vehicles for the army which will lift the planned production run to 737 vehicles.

Special Operations Command troops, the SAS and commandos can expect to be driving an altogether new vehicle, the British-made Supacat -- named the Nary in Australia in honour of Warrant Officer David Nary, who died during a Middle East pre-deployment operation in 2005. Eight Nary trial vehicles are on schedule for a handover to the Special Air Service Regiment in November.

Special forces have been allocated 31 new Nary patrol vehicles, which will replace the SASR's fleet of ageing Long Range Patrol Vehicles.
 

MARKMILES77

Active Member
Why extra M113s?
350 was previously determined to be the number to equip all the units which would require them. Now they are buying 431.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Why extra M113s?
350 was previously determined to be the number to equip all the units which would require them. Now they are buying 431.
The original announcement for the Enhanced Land Force announced $10b in funding for the raising of the 2 extra battalions.

With these latest vehicle orders, I think we are seeing where a lot of that cash is going...

81x M113's is enough to equip a single battalion... :)
 

MARKMILES77

Active Member
I wonder does the extra M113s mean that 5RAR and 7RAR will no longer operate Bushmasters but instead will have a higher number of M-113s, in roles that the Bushmasters were previously going to perform?
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I wonder if this might be a not so subtle gee up by someone
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24573891-31477,00.html
The photo is coincidental as the Minister had just signed a contract at the Mercedes Benz stand and the press photographers wanted to take a photo with something more exciting than a green 4WD behind him and the K-9 was right next door. So they hustled him over to take the photo.

Land 17 SPH is set for Second Pass at the next meeting of national security committee of cabinet but subject to White Paper budget deliberations. So we might not hear the outcome until May next year. However if the Government is serious about protection for combat troops they have to get an SPH. No substitute for it as combat in Afghanistan has shown.
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I wonder does the extra M113s mean that 5RAR and 7RAR will no longer operate Bushmasters but instead will have a higher number of M-113s, in roles that the Bushmasters were previously going to perform?
Nope the Bushmasters in those units were replacing trucks that carried people in the support echelon. About half (200) of the M113AS3/4 will be in non-infantry units like 1 Armd Regt, 8/12 Mdm Regt, 1 Cbt Engr Regt, 1 Cmd Supt Regt and 1 CSS Bn.
 

mattyem

New Member
I cant see us replacing the styer with anything for a while. All of the alternatives are comparable in capability. Sure one or two may have small advantages in ergonomics or length, but the differences are almost negligible. Realistically unless something like the AICW comes into production there is simply no real justification for the cost of replacing the small arms pool. Realistically none of them give us a capability that the F88 does not. Additionally there's no way the DoD is going to use a non NATO standard round. The logistical problem this creates more than outweigh the advantages.

Admin. Late deletion as comments not noticed before. Comments unacceptable.

Spot on, The New Zealand looked into replacing the styer but after completing a study on the matter it was concluded that a simple upgrade of the weapon (scope, universal rails etc) it is on par with other assault rifles in use else where.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The revised Steyr is being chambered to take F1 ball (same as the M4's)

A working model was on display at LWC and one of the sessions at the conference was on the engineering issues discovered whilst being developed.

I'd add that one of the reasons why bullies are favoured is that there is a faster uplift rate for newbies to qualify as compared to a std weapon

In the case of the Austeyr, its going to be with Oz for a while yet.
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The Steyr replacement project, Land 159, is tentaively timeframed for entry into service in 2020 with a new infantry combat weapon, personel defence weapon and support weapon.
 
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