Lynx is an existing vehicle. Hungary accepted delivery of its first of 209 on 15 Oct 2022. How many Redbacks have been delivered to customers so far? The K21's been in service for a long time, but the Redback isn't a standard K21, so it can be argued that it's new - though "entirely new product" does seem an exaggeration.
Hmm this is shaping up as bad news for the Albanese government no matter which way it goes but fits the historical script so far.
That article along with the Germans all of a sudden being here for Talisman Sabre seems like it’s quid pro pro. What is surprising is the order hasn’t been signed for the German boxers. You would be forgiven for thinking we had a contract after that Boxer purchase announcements a few weeks ago. It won’t go down well in Geelong for Marles. On the other hand if it went to Hanwha in Geelong and the Germans pull out of the Boxer deal Albanese, Marles and Conroy will look stupid. If the Germans pulled out there would be champagne flowing and unmitigated glee in Palais Bourbon.
As for the option of building over seas I could only see that happening with Hanwha and again that would not go down well in Geelong nor would it be good for our defence industry at a time we are, at least saying, we want to build capability.
We will see soon.
That article along with the Germans all of a sudden being here for Talisman Sabre seems like it’s quid pro pro. What is surprising is the order hasn’t been signed for the German boxers. You would be forgiven for thinking we had a contract after that Boxer purchase announcements a few weeks ago. It won’t go down well in Geelong for Marles. On the other hand if it went to Hanwha in Geelong and the Germans pull out of the Boxer deal Albanese, Marles and Conroy will look stupid. If the Germans pulled out there would be champagne flowing and unmitigated glee in Palais Bourbon.
As for the option of building over seas I could only see that happening with Hanwha and again that would not go down well in Geelong nor would it be good for our defence industry at a time we are, at least saying, we want to build capability.
We will see soon.
Anthony_B_78
Active Member
I think that's being overly fair to the reporter on this point. (Not that I'm condemning them to some cruel punishment.) Lynx was an all-new vehicle when it was presented as a bid to Land 400 Phase 3. It was the "entirely new product". While the Redback is a development of an existing one that was already in service at that point. The reporter got it the wrong way round. Understandable mistake.
The report is new. At the time it was written, Hungarian soldiers were driving production standard Hungarian army Lynxes around Hungary, with more being built & delivered, & the Redback existed only as prototypes. Saying "it would have been untrue a few years ago" is accurate but irrelevant. The report was (mostly) correct when written. It's more or less correct now.
Honestly I don't think we will have, and never looked like having, the scale needed to support MILVEHCOE, Bendigo and Geelong. If we end up consolidating the armour production in Queensland and the lighter stuff in Bendigo I think that's sensible. I can't see a reason why you wouldn't build a Hanwha facility next to the Rheinmetall one and develop a local workforce full of people who know how to build and maintain heavy metal.
The Victorians shouldn't complain too much - lots of demand for Bushmasters and Hawkeis right now.
As an aside, as a New South Welshman I'd say the other states (except maybe Tassie?) do very nicely out of Defence procurement and perhaps should stop whingeing....
I'd guess both IFV contenders would be adequate for their intended role.
Really the whole SPG / IFV purchase is a bit of a mess.
Purchase Numbers / build location / locations? and time frame to make a decision.
Whatever the outcome it will be turned into political mileage for both sides of politics.
All I can hope fore is that SPG and IFV numbers are increased with time.
Cheers S
It all seems rather pointless to me now that the buy has been reduced to equipping a single mechanised infantry battalion and a few other sub units of 9th Brigade. It doesn't seem worth it. Maybe buy a few Bradley's via FMS and try again with a new less blinkered government in a few years.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Or order the 129 now and try again in a few years for the extra vehicles, we should have at least 5-6 years to add to the order book. We are not stuck at 129, it is just all the Government is prepared to authorise at this point. Look at the Bushmaster, 299 in the original order, 1050 delivered and we are still ordering them 20 years later.
I suspect the low order numbers are the Fed Govt attempting to show minimal deficits for future financial years, by minimising orders. I can't see Huawei, for example, continuing with the Vic factory on the current order book unless they have been assured privately of further orders.
WaveWalker
Member
Huawei is a Chinese technology company. I think you mean Hanwha. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Koreans shut down the Victorian factory or at least no longer offer Australian production for a small order. It’s not worth it for them, given the tiny profit they’d been making. No one can privately assure the Koreans of further orders, given its a government order.
Well If you look at the Australian Defence Magazine home page. Australian Defence Magazine - Australian Defence Magazine the first thing you will see is an add from Hanwha confirming their commitment to the Geelong Factory.
what does it mean for the IFV buy? We should all know soon. However which ever vehicle is selected it will good news for the Army
what does it mean for the IFV buy? We should all know soon. However which ever vehicle is selected it will good news for the Army
knightrider4
Active Member
Yes one of the more embarrassing procurement process Ive ever been witness to. Its amazing that both of these vehicles were pretty much designed with Land 400 in mind and yet here we are........
Well it seems that the current government is deleying any spending other than what is absolutely nessasary. Money seems very tight at the moment, and I don't see any an ouncment of an IFV buy anytime soon.
The C130 buy was budgeted under the previous government, although it was for 24 not 20.
The extra 2 MRTT were booted around for a few years with talk but no action, and seems to being continued to be kicked around.
The frigate /corvette conversation has stagnated, and the Himars order has been made, and extra units also kicked around, but no firm commitment. So far, not overly impressed with the current government's urgent action on defence.
The C130 buy was budgeted under the previous government, although it was for 24 not 20.
The extra 2 MRTT were booted around for a few years with talk but no action, and seems to being continued to be kicked around.
The frigate /corvette conversation has stagnated, and the Himars order has been made, and extra units also kicked around, but no firm commitment. So far, not overly impressed with the current government's urgent action on defence.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
It’s Wednesday...
In fact it’s “Workshop Wednesday!”
For those not following the weekly updates from the Australian Armour & Artillery Museum (Cairns, Nth Queensland), do yourself a huge favour and visit their website (many many videos, 125+, to watch).
Today is the final episode of the restoration of a very rare ‘welded’ hull Australian Army Grant Tank.
The resto took 316 days, from empty shell to a restored running tank.
Enjoy!!!
In fact it’s “Workshop Wednesday!”
For those not following the weekly updates from the Australian Armour & Artillery Museum (Cairns, Nth Queensland), do yourself a huge favour and visit their website (many many videos, 125+, to watch).
Today is the final episode of the restoration of a very rare ‘welded’ hull Australian Army Grant Tank.
The resto took 316 days, from empty shell to a restored running tank.
Enjoy!!!
Mark_Evans
Member
Well, looks like the Redback won
www.afr.com
Koreans beat Germans to win armoured troop carrier deal
Korean firm Hanwha has been selected ahead of Germany’s Rheinmetall for a multi-billion dollar contract to build 129 Redback armoured vehicles.
So far so good. That was the rumoured winner a few months ago. If the Germans don’t pull out of the Boxer order all good.Well, looks like the Redback won
Koreans beat Germans to win armoured troop carrier deal
Korean firm Hanwha has been selected ahead of Germany’s Rheinmetall for a multi-billion dollar contract to build 129 Redback armoured vehicles.
Anthony_B_78
Active Member
The ABC's Andrew Greene reporting the same. Good to hear if it was indeed the Army's preferred choice.Well, looks like the Redback won
Koreans beat Germans to win armoured troop carrier deal
Korean firm Hanwha has been selected ahead of Germany’s Rheinmetall for a multi-billion dollar contract to build 129 Redback armoured vehicles.
An extract from tomorrow’s Australian on Land. 400 suggests that the German Boxer order will not go ahead.
The move to award the contract to one of Australia’s closest trading partners will strengthen relations with a vital player in East Asian diplomacy. But it will go down badly in Germany and wider Europe, where Australia is trying to seal a free trade deal amid stiff opposition and after the Morrison government cancelled France’s Attack-class submarines contract.
Mr Conroy rang both bidders on Wednesday night to deliver the news. A source close to Rheinmetall said its Brisbane factory would now likely close in 2026, and the promised export orders would disappear.
It’s understood Rheinmetall was told its Lynx vehicle had a “fundamental vibration issue”. The issue was linked to the vehicles all-metal tracks, which were said to have made several testers ill.
The company had sought to introduce a composite track, like that used by Hanwha, late in the process. But Defence refused to accept fresh testing data.
The contract to supply the vehicles is understood to be worth about $2.4bn. A source said Rheinmetall’s bid was lower.
Anthony Albanese announced Rheinmetall’s $1b pledge to sell Boxers back to the German army during his visit to Berlin earlier this month, in a pledge that may now prove uncertain.
The Prime Minister said at the time the deal would be one of the largest defence export deals in the country’s history.
The move to award the contract to one of Australia’s closest trading partners will strengthen relations with a vital player in East Asian diplomacy. But it will go down badly in Germany and wider Europe, where Australia is trying to seal a free trade deal amid stiff opposition and after the Morrison government cancelled France’s Attack-class submarines contract.
Mr Conroy rang both bidders on Wednesday night to deliver the news. A source close to Rheinmetall said its Brisbane factory would now likely close in 2026, and the promised export orders would disappear.
It’s understood Rheinmetall was told its Lynx vehicle had a “fundamental vibration issue”. The issue was linked to the vehicles all-metal tracks, which were said to have made several testers ill.
The company had sought to introduce a composite track, like that used by Hanwha, late in the process. But Defence refused to accept fresh testing data.
The contract to supply the vehicles is understood to be worth about $2.4bn. A source said Rheinmetall’s bid was lower.
Anthony Albanese announced Rheinmetall’s $1b pledge to sell Boxers back to the German army during his visit to Berlin earlier this month, in a pledge that may now prove uncertain.
The Prime Minister said at the time the deal would be one of the largest defence export deals in the country’s history.
Some more BOXERS and an order of GMARS on top of the U.S HIMARS order might soften the blow.
Oops. How in heck my brain moved Hanwha to Huawei from my fingers I don't know.
Apologies.