Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[barra]

These are the guys I am talking about. They are clearly Australian with the ADM and Long Service Medals, Rising sun badge etc. I was getting at the colour of the stripes, matt black, and belt, same same. The cut of the uniform appears to be similar to the RAAF new(ish) blues so I thought maybe Army had changed their uniform as well?

Hooroo

 

[gf0012-aust]

These are the guys I am talking about. They are clearly Australian with the ADM and Long Service Medals, Rising sun badge etc. I was getting at the colour of the stripes, matt black, and belt, same same. The cut of the uniform appears to be similar to the RAAF new(ish) blues so I thought maybe Army had changed their uniform as well?

Hooroo

maybe its a variation on the ceremonial uniform? AD will probably know....

 

[AGRA]

maybe its a variation on the ceremonial uniform? AD will probably know....

This is the regimental uniform for 51st Battalion, Far North Queensland Regiment. As Defence has been saying these guys are doing the ceremonial detail to honour the dead who are from their battalion.

FNQR have black badges and rifle green rank details because someone thought it would be cool to make them look that way 100 years ago.

The rest of the uniform is basic standard Army polys.

 

[Waylander]

That would probably more be the result of using a KZO drone overhead linked directly to the battery command post, to provide additional targeting and effects info.

No idea if they've tried it. Putlos, where they usually do artillery (and tank) live-fire exercises would provide the needed terrain to try that though.

Yeah, I know I'm late but I was on vacation...

IIRC they did trials with the Pzh2000 in Sweden against naval targets in 1996.

They were very satisfied and showed that a moving target can be hit by the first (I suppose one battery) salvo.

I wonder which kind of ammo they used.
Normal HE should make a lot of damage but bomblets and high detonation HEs should have a bigger chance of hitting the target and causing a mission kill.

Could SMArt be used against ships or would the seeker have problems with aquiring such a big target like a ship?

 

[kato]

Could SMArt be used against ships or would the seeker have problems with aquiring such a big target like a ship?

Probably. Seeker for SMArt uses a millimeter-wave radar and a infrared sensor, so it probably wouldn't have any problems with acquiring a ship. Would probably go for the exhausts, or something. Though a ship would have better CM possibilities than ground targets with flares, chaff etc.

Don't think SMArt was used in 1996 though. GIWS built the first prototypes in 1997, with pilot lot testing in 1999 and had the final product tested it in 2002, with production for the German Army starting in 2003.

 

[Waylander]

Mmmh, that it would go for the exhaust is indeed a problem.

So one should use bomblets to shred important thinks like radars, weapons, people...

Or use plain normal HEs. A 155mm HE hit should give an enemy FFG defenitely something to worry about.

 

[AGRA]

SMArt would require new targeting algorithms to hit a ship. The dual mode sensors spiral search a relatively small footprint at a time in the 3 hectares or so of coverage. This footprint is sufficient to identify any type of vehicle or GBAD system component. However a ship bigger than a 10-20m long boat is going to be bigger than this footprint. This doesn't mean the sensor fused munition (SFM) or other ‘skeets’ like SMArt couldn't targe a ship. However they would need to be developed to assemble a target image from multiple spirals.

Even then most skeets like SMArt wouldn’t do any significant damage to a boat as they are only armed with EFPs. SMArt AM(D) has a PFF (fragmentation) warhead and would be great for damaging ship’s antennas.

But as the PzH2000 proved in the KA tests and generations of conventional coastal artillery before it normal guns firing HE are very effective against ships as there courses are relatively predictable. Modern warships are especially vulnerable to mission kills from airburst and splinters because of their huge reliance on un-protected antennas.

 

[cobber]

This is just a question to all those who also use The Fifth Column Forum is anybody having trouble login into this web site as I am. I have tried in Firefox as well as Internet Explorer and can not raise the site. Any comment would be welcome.
Cheers Cobber

 

[rawcs]

Hi Cobber,

There is a problem with the domain registration that Andrew is trying to sort out at the moment. Going by past experience its likely to be down for close on a week.

regards,

rawcs

 

[Waylander]

SMArt would require new targeting algorithms to hit a ship. The dual mode sensors spiral search a relatively small footprint at a time in the 3 hectares or so of coverage. This footprint is sufficient to identify any type of vehicle or GBAD system component. However a ship bigger than a 10-20m long boat is going to be bigger than this footprint. This doesn't mean the sensor fused munition (SFM) or other ‘skeets’ like SMArt couldn't targe a ship. However they would need to be developed to assemble a target image from multiple spirals.

Even then most skeets like SMArt wouldn’t do any significant damage to a boat as they are only armed with EFPs. SMArt AM(D) has a PFF (fragmentation) warhead and would be great for damaging ship’s antennas.

But as the PzH2000 proved in the KA tests and generations of conventional coastal artillery before it normal guns firing HE are very effective against ships as there courses are relatively predictable. Modern warships are especially vulnerable to mission kills from airburst and splinters because of their huge reliance on un-protected antennas.

Thanks for that.

That's what I also thought.

Would for example an AT-bomblet like the DM 662 do enough damage do provide a mission kill?
In other words, is a bomblet powerfull enough for example to penetrate a harpoon canister?
I suspect it is definitely enough to damage sensor and radio equipment.

 

[AGRA]

The DM 662 EFP can penetrate over 130mm of RHA and provide lots of behind armour effects. This is great for knocking out a tank however on a ship is likely just to take out a single compartment. This compartment could be the smoke stack the supply office, etc. Chances of hitting a Harpoon canister would be minimal. Though if it did it would likely detonate the solid fuel propellent motor creating a nasty blast. A blast outside the ship’s structure however.

One other thing is the ship would probably shoot down the skeets anyway. The deployment altitude (about 500 feet) and descent trajectory of the skeets is well within Phalanx and other CIWS engagement capability. Phalanx would make short work of SMArt 155s.

The summary of all this is don’t waste your time shooting skeets at ships! You would get a better effect shooting normal HE with PD or airburst fusing.

 

[cobber]

Thanks for the help.
Cobber.

 

[Tasman]

These are the guys I am talking about. They are clearly Australian with the ADM and Long Service Medals, Rising sun badge etc. I was getting at the colour of the stripes, matt black, and belt, same same. The cut of the uniform appears to be similar to the RAAF new(ish) blues so I thought maybe Army had changed their uniform as well?

Hooroo

More pictures of soldiers from the FNQR at the Menin Gate are now posted on the ADF website:

http://www.defence.gov.au/Passchedaele/gallery/20071008/index.htm

I am definitely showing my age. When I looked at the uniforms the other day the black belts and rifle slings seemed normal to me because that was the webbing colour when I was in the ADF 40 years ago!

A trip to Ypres and the Menin Gate is a very worthwhile. I was there two years ago on Anzac Day and I was amazed that an Anzac Day ceremony was held, including a march through Ypres. My wife and I were just going for a morning walk when we heard a band playing Waltzing Matilda and then saw a parade led by a local school band and which included military reps from Oz and NZ and a swag of Oz and Kiwi flags. On one of the walls we found the names of one of my wife's great uncles who was killed near Ypres and who has no known grave. It was a very moving experience.

A low resolution image of the FNQR guard is shown below:

Tas

 

[Aussie Digger]

More pictures of soldiers from the FNQR at the Menin Gate are now posted on the ADF website:

http://www.defence.gov.au/Passchedaele/gallery/20071008/index.htm

I am definitely showing my age. When I looked at the uniforms the other day the black belts and rifle slings seemed normal to me because that was the webbing colour when I was in the ADF 40 years ago!

A trip to Ypres and the Menin Gate is a very worthwhile. I was there two years ago on Anzac Day and I was amazed that an Anzac Day ceremony was held, including a march through Ypres. My wife and I were just going for a morning walk when we heard a band playing Waltzing Matilda and then saw a parade led by a local school band and which included military reps from Oz and NZ and a swag of Oz and Kiwi flags. On one of the walls we found the names of one of my wife's great uncles who was killed near Ypres and who has no known grave. It was a very moving experience.

A low resolution image of the FNQR guard is shown below:

Tas

And how good is MY timing? I'm off to Ypres and Passchaedale next week...

 

[Tasman]

And how good is MY timing? I'm off to Ypres and Passchaedale next week...

You will still enjoy it. There is a lot to see.

Have a great trip AD.

Cheers

Tas

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

And how good is MY timing? I'm off to Ypres and Passchaedale next week...

Lay a flower for me at Passhendale mate, id love to get there but i cant afford it! Are you going to drop into Pozieres at all??? I'd love to see a few pictures if you do get there, its one place i will pay my respects before i die, its just the money. Anyways have a safe trip.

 

[MARKMILES77]

The ADF's Project JP 2072 to provide the Army with a modern digital battlefield communication syatem is in disarray.
The initial contract with General Dynamics has been terminated by DMO as GD has failed to deliver the contracted targets, two years after the contract was signed.

Back to the drawing board!

 

[AGRA]

The problems with JP2072 Phase 1 have been visable for a while. One of the reasons Defence included all radios into Land 200 for Battle Group and below C3 (BGC3). They have also been having high level talks with Off The Shelf providers of potential JP2072 Phase 2 Brigade and higher communications providers. Tadrian and others have been asked for high level briefs on their OTS products.

 

[AGRA]

The initial contract with General Dynamics has been terminated by DMO as GD has failed to deliver the contracted targets, two years after the contract was signed.

GDSA and GD Canada (their parent and not to be confused with GDLS Canada who are completely different) will tell you they have meet the targets. But Phase 1 was just to 'design' a higher levels communications archetiture. Defence didn't like what GDSA were spinning. And fair enough this is another pre-Kinnaird legacy project to reinvent a dodgy wheel. Much better just to buy OTS and customise this product for Australia - as in the BGC3.

 

[eckherl]

I just had a individual state to me that Australia is planning on adding a additional armor battalion, is this true.