Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[hairyman]

On a different subject, I read today that the US is selling Saudi Arabia 180 155mm M109A5/A6 Paladin Howitzer Systems along with 180 .50 calibre machine guns and various support systems for $1.31billion(to be converted to 177 of the more advanced A6 system).. Roughly $10mill au for each paladin (with a .50 machine gun thrown in). Maybe it is time for us to rethink the self propelled artillery again?

 

[MARKMILES77]

WASHINGTON, Apr. 5, 2018 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to Australia of M795 with Insensitive Munitions Explosive (IMX) 101 Explosive Fill 155mm HE projectiles for an estimated cost of $148 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on Apr. 4, 2018.

The Government of Australia has requested to buy two thousand, five hundred four (2,504) rounds of M795 with Insensitive Munitions Explosive (IMX) 101 Explosive Fill 155mm High Explosive (HE) Projectile. Also included are 155mm High Explosive, Illumination and White Phosphorous munitions, point detonating fuzes, electronic-timed fuzes, M231 and M232/M232A1 propelling charges, percussion primers, technical publications and books, technical data for operational maintenance, technical assistance and services, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The total estimated program cost is $148 million.

This proposed sale will enhance the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by helping to improve the security of a strategic partner which has been, and continues to be, an important force for political stability and economic progress in the East Asia and Pacific region.

The proposed sale of 155mm howitzer ammunition will improve Australia’s capability to meet out-year Operational Readiness Training requirements. Australia will use this capability to strengthen its homeland defense and deter regional threats. Australia will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment into its armed forces.

How does this fit in with the Assegai 155mm ammunition ordered?
Are M795s necessary because the 4000+ Precision Guidance Kits purchased by Australia are not compatible with with the assegai rounds?

 

[hairyman]

How does this fit in with the Assegai 155mm ammunition ordered?
Are M795s necessary because the 4000+ Precision Guidance Kits purchased by Australia are not compatible with with the assegai rounds?

Are those numbers right? 101 artillary shells for $148mill/ Does not make sense.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Are those numbers right? 101 artillary shells for $148mill/ Does not make sense.

No, that's not the right number. Try reading the second paragraph for the number of rounds ordered
IMX "101" is the type of explosive fill used in the M795 rounds, which is stated twice in the quoted information

 

[hairyman]

Whoops.. I had not opened it up and read further. But still. $58'000 sounds a lot for an artillery shell

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Whoops.. I had not opened it up and read further. But still. $58'000 sounds a lot for an artillery shell

First you bitch about $1.46 Million a round. Then complain when it's only 1/25th the price.
There's absolutely no pleasing you.

In all seriousness, the second paragraph also states that the sale includes additional material:

also included are 155mm High Explosive, Illumination and White Phosphorous munitions, point detonating fuzes, electronic-timed fuzes, M231 and M232/M232A1 propelling charges, percussion primers, technical publications and books, technical data for operational maintenance, technical assistance and services, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The total estimated program cost is $148 million.

 

[hairyman]

I am not an artillary man. Could any artillary types on here indicate what they make of that price?

 

[Todjaeger]

I am not an artillary man. Could any artillary types on here indicate what they make of that price?

Not a gun bunny, but IIRC the price of US M712 'Copperhead' laser-guided 155 mm HEAT artillery shells had been ~USD$10,000 per round around 30 years ago, though current pricing is supposed to be close to USD$70,000 per round.

 

[hairyman]

Wow.... Thanks for that Todjaeger. I had no idea they could be that sort of price.

 

[Todjaeger]

Wow.... Thanks for that Todjaeger. I had no idea they could be that sort of price.

Happy to help. The pricing itself came from cost estimates for an arms package delivered to/used by Lebanon against daesh forces within eastern Lebanon late last year and the estimate was made January of this year IIRC.

I would imagine that 'dumb' 155 mm rounds would likely be 'only' a few thousand dollars, but any time one starts adding extra capabilities, like base-bleed projectiles, rocket-assisted, or any of the other methods to achieve extended range, precision guidance/targeting, and/or special warhead capabilities like HEAT, the price will quickly start rising. The joys of increased complexity.

 

[Stampede]

Just an un-ashamed post for a mate and model making legend for any Aussies that are interested, custom built from scratch Hawkei models

Defence Models and Graphics Pty Ltd

Cheers

Just wondering if your mate could knock up an extra dozen fully working one to one scale MBT's to support the Armoured Cav Regt's.
It might be quicker than Army / Govt making said decision on extra MBT numbers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Regards S

 

[Stampede]

An interesting piece in the Defence Technology Review regrading Land 400 Phase Three.
Having a Final Operational Capability some Twelve years away looks problematic.
I wonder what the plan for the M113's retirement is relative to the transition to the new fleet


Defence Technology Review : DTR MAY 2018, Page 1

Regards S

 

[MARKMILES77]

What's up with the helicopters used by SASR for their capability demonstration at the opening of their new facilities at Swanbourne?
Does Army have helicopters not previously revealed, have Blackhawks been upgraded (to UH-60M Standard?) or are US Army helicopters based in WA?

 

[Ballistic]

It's a US Army MH-60M. See the tail boom section. Hopefully it's a taste of what is to come for 6 Avn.

 

[MARKMILES77]

So what are US Army helicopters doing in Australia?
Are there US Army helicopters operating in Australia regularly with SASR?
Australian Army trialing it?

 

[aussienscale]

So what are US Army helicopters doing in Australia?
Are there US Army helicopters operating in Australia regularly with SASR?
Australian Army trialing it?

I think you will find there is a fairly persistent presence in the west, you won't get much more than that.

Cheers

 

[FormerDirtDart]

So what are US Army helicopters doing in Australia?
Are there US Army helicopters operating in Australia regularly with SASR?
Australian Army trialing it?

USSOCOM and the 160th SOAR take advantage of training opportunities with friends and partners all over the planet, quite regularly.

 

[TonyRyan]

Mod edit: Text deleted. DefenceTalk isn't a place to post flame-baiting comments, or push conspiracy theories. If a member wishes to do so, they are certainly free to do it elsewhere on the internet. Such behavior on DefenceTalk will result in the content being deleted. Continuing such behavior will result in sanctions, including banning. This is already the 2nd time.
-Preceptor

 

[ASSAIL]

What a load of political BS.
I haven't got time to go through the errors and hyperbole in the above but I will do that tonight.
However, it is what I'd expect from a professional left activist.

 

[the road runner]

Rafael have been chosen to supply Spike LR-2 onto Australia's Boxer fleet ..
With Spike LR2II being chosen by Israel i wonder if it was on offer to Australia ?

Australia selects Spike LR2 | Jane's 360

With Javelin already being in the ADF could we replaced it with a version of Spike SR/MR/LR to reduce logistics for Army ?