Another dozen F-22 Raptors

O

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
F-15 Eagle said:
Not enough to replace all the F-15s. Not enough to achieve air superiority on just 126 combat cable F-22s out of 187.
Click to expand...
Why not? A wing of F-22A's supporting five or six wings of F-35A's equipped with JDRAAM, whatever tanker they decide to buy and the best C5ISTAR capability on the planet is going to be more than enough to achieve air superiority in virtually any geographical location (where the basing is available) against any foe. Remember all those F-15C's were produced during a cold war footing, times have changed. Why does the USAF of 2020 have to be a technologically upgraded version of the USAF of 1980 when the world it operates in is massively different? Operational requirements driven by contemporary technology and the strategic landscape should determine your force structure and platform choice, not the other way round.

Look i agree 204 isn't a heap of platforms, and more would be nice. But a 1 for 1 replacement for the F-15 fleet seems extremely excessive to me.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
fretburner said:
The same Senators who approved 7 Raptors are also pitching for an export variant, for possibly Japan and other allies.
Click to expand...
They're congressmen, and they have as much chance of getting an export variant of the F-22 as I have of building an aegis DDG in my backyard. :)
 
F

F35Owns

New Member
fretburner said:
The same Senators who approved 7 Raptors are also pitching for an export variant, for possibly Japan and other allies.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and I am Tom Brady, from the New England Patriots. Last week I teleported to Mars. And next week and Me, Ahmadinejad, and Netanyahu are going to a BBQ together...we're BFF's.
 
C

Crusader2000

Banned Member
gf0012-aust said:
They're congressmen, and they have as much chance of getting an export variant of the F-22 as I have of building an aegis DDG in my backyard. :)
Click to expand...
Its worth noting that any export model of the F-22 wouldn't be available for years. So, what happens when Lockheed Martin runs out of USAF Orders??? Is Japan going to pay to keep the production line open??? Especially, considering the proposed Japanese F-22 is already in the region of 250-290 Million per copy!
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Crusader2000 said:
Its worth noting that any export model of the F-22 wouldn't be available for years. So, what happens when Lockheed Martin runs out of USAF Orders??? Is Japan going to pay to keep the production line open??? Especially, considering the proposed Japanese F-22 is already in the region of 250-290 Million per copy!
Click to expand...
I'm not going to re-type all my comments, so I am going to cardinal sin and beg Webs indulgence and link externally to make my own life easier. This is a complex issue, and probably beyond this forum.

I've written on this a number of times, and after 4 years it is slowly coming out how and why I was "right"

The Japanese aren't getting an export F-22, some of the reasons are obvious.

Warplanes: The F-22 Mud Fighter
 
B

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
gf0012-aust said:
I'm not going to re-type all my comments, so I am going to cardinal sin and beg Webs indulgence and link externally to make my own life easier. This is a complex issue, and probably beyond this forum.

I've written on this a number of times, and after 4 years it is slowly coming out how and why I was "right"

The Japanese aren't getting an export F-22, some of the reasons are obvious.

Warplanes: The F-22 Mud Fighter
Click to expand...
Cheers for the link GF, very interesting. I didn't realise the development/through-life issues for the F-22 were so far reaching! Certainly puts things in perspective...
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Bonza said:
Cheers for the link GF, very interesting. I didn't realise the development/through-life issues for the F-22 were so far reaching! Certainly puts things in perspective...
Click to expand...
It's also my last comment on this as I had a US colleague contact me earlier today and suggest that I should not contribute anymore to the debate.
 
S

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Davyd said:

Firstly, i thought that title belonged to the KC-10. Secondly, i wouldn't believe it anyway - i have seen so many comics, heard so many degrading comments on it (why is one of its nicknames The Lawn Dart?) to make me think otherwise. And off all of that, i would still consider the number skewed for the simple fact that there are up to 1100 in the inventory. A few losses to that number would make that ratio look better than most others anyway (1 crash per 1100 F-16s = 1:1100, 1 crash per 60 F-117s = 1:60).
Click to expand...


To be accurate you must consider accident rate per number of flight hours, not per numbers of aircraft.
 
O

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
gf0012-aust said:
I'm not going to re-type all my comments, so I am going to cardinal sin and beg Webs indulgence and link externally to make my own life easier. This is a complex issue, and probably beyond this forum.

I've written on this a number of times, and after 4 years it is slowly coming out how and why I was "right"

The Japanese aren't getting an export F-22, some of the reasons are obvious.

Warplanes: The F-22 Mud Fighter
Click to expand...
Wow, that was enlightening... I didn't have a clue the F-22A had through life sustainability issues of that magnitude. Geesch, that fills in a few blanks. LM clearly screwed the pooch, lets all be thankful that the F-35 is in a much healthier position. You would expect that on the 3rd generation jet platform LM would have thought of architecture obsolescence issues, although that form of technology has been moving awfully quickly lately. Why haven't we seen similar issues on legacy platforms?
 
E

EGB2494

New Member
More F-22's

Obama has said that but one thing is true about our new President. He goes along with the political wind. Right now, he is trying to rally support for his health care package. He needs all of the help he can get.

I think there is a good chance he DOESN'T veto it because the people who want more F-22's are going to push the JOBS aspect of this. Obama says he is all about jobs. He will not want to appear to veto something that will keep people working. I think his veto threat was an idle one. He also will need all of the Congressional support he can get to do his health care thing.
 
F

F-15 Eagle

New Member
EGB2494 said:
Obama has said that but one thing is true about our new President. He goes along with the political wind. Right now, he is trying to rally support for his health care package. He needs all of the help he can get.

I think there is a good chance he DOESN'T veto it because the people who want more F-22's are going to push the JOBS aspect of this. Obama says he is all about jobs. He will not want to appear to veto something that will keep people working. I think his veto threat was an idle one. He also will need all of the Congressional support he can get to do his health care thing.
Click to expand...
The Senate already voted 58-40 to kill production of the F-22. So only 187 will be built and instead focus on the F-35. I don't agree on cutting defense for health care, typical liberal crap but I wont say much more.

Senate kills production of F-22 Raptor - Los Angeles Business from bizjournals:
 
F

F-15 Eagle

New Member
localhost127 said:
how much (in USD billions) more do you feel we should be spending on defense?

how does that benefit the country as a whole?
Click to expand...
I don't see how cutting the defense budget(weapons programs) will benefit the country as a whole ether. We have been down that road before.

As for how much we should spend well that just depends if it includes 20 more F-22s than that would be about 5 billion more.
 
C

charles34

New Member
Hey guys I am new to this board. I personally do like the f-22 raptor. Maybe someday we can get more, but we could use that money right now for things like cyber defense or f-35. I heard for every hour of flight the f-22 does it takes like 30 or so hours for maintenance. Again, I like the f-22 but maybe the money could go to other things we need right now.
 
O

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
Guys read GF's earlier post, everyone would love more F-22A's but LM screwed the pooch. Even the ones they have wont all be able to fulfill the air superiority role in 15 years. F-22A will be a black hole in terms of through life development, its a fundamentally flawed platform, its got little to do with partisan politics.
 
B

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ozzy Blizzard said:
Guys read GF's earlier post, everyone would love more F-22A's but LM screwed the pooch. Even the ones they have wont all be able to fulfill the air superiority role in 15 years. F-22A will be a black hole in terms of through life development, its a fundamentally flawed platform, its got little to do with partisan politics.
Click to expand...
I second that. If you actually read the comments in the article GF posted, you'll gain a great deal of understanding as to the F-22's shortcomings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top