mysterious
New Member
Mike Powell, by 'location' we mean that you just put your country name or even city name in if you want but is that your 'complete' address that I'm seeing on the left corner under your name? 
Al-Khalid, Al-zarrar & APC's being handed over to the army
- Thread starter fieldmarshal
- Start date
The blackhwak down incident Somalia (Blackhawk Down incident)
I thought Malaysia was the country that went to the US's rescue. Even in the movie itself i could see the Malaysian Flag on the APC. ALso, the US general wrote a letter to Malaysia to thank them for their efforts. The Malaysian troops went in to get the US troops without waiting for permission from the UN as the situation broke no delay
I thought Malaysia was the country that went to the US's rescue. Even in the movie itself i could see the Malaysian Flag on the APC. ALso, the US general wrote a letter to Malaysia to thank them for their efforts. The Malaysian troops went in to get the US troops without waiting for permission from the UN as the situation broke no delay
That's not entirely true, if the Pakistan armour unit did not asist the Rangers and Delta would have been dead meat. Malaysian infantry, Pakistan armour vehicles and U.S 10th Mountain all participated in the rescue.wzhtg said:
Mike Powell
New Member
Well that's not my real address anyway because I've just move away.
mysterious
New Member
Yup, Pathfinder's right 'Mr. wzhtg'!! Malaysian APCs were there and Pakistani Tanks along with US 10th Mountain (seems like you didnt watch the movie properly which I dont think can give you 'more' obvious info on how much the Pakistanis helped). :smokingc:Pathfinder-X said:
mysterious
New Member
Well I'd like to see other APCs' pics other than the Al-Talha APC which is the only one with its pictures around I guess. Al-Saad, Al-Humza, Al-Qaswa, etc; who has access to get some info on them along with their pics? :roll
a little bit of info...true the pak tanks were there but it did not enter the grd zero area as it was a bit large to manouvre around the narrow alleys of bakara....what was shown on BHD is not representative of the actual scene
due to that fact the condors of the 19th batt of the REJIMEN ASKAR MELAYU DIRAJA (RAMD) or ROYAL MALAY REGT. HAD TO GO IN BY THEMSELVES...
initially the americans wanted to take over the vehicles but this was overvhlemingly opposed by malaysia so a compromise was made that is the malaysian would operate the condors and command it with the rear mg gunner whilst 10 MOUNTAIN REGT to supply the infantry..im not sure if msia had men on the grd during the actual run to the crash site....
in the ensuing battle 1 msia soldier was fatally wounded and several others injured and 4 of the condors was immobilised and had to be destroyed by heli gunships lest they be misused by the militias...
in nut shell the brunt of the mission was borne by the us and malaysian troops with the pakistanis providing armoured support.
btw the nalaysian batt was the designated QRF(QUICK REACTION FORCE) of the UNOSOM 2 .:
due to that fact the condors of the 19th batt of the REJIMEN ASKAR MELAYU DIRAJA (RAMD) or ROYAL MALAY REGT. HAD TO GO IN BY THEMSELVES...
initially the americans wanted to take over the vehicles but this was overvhlemingly opposed by malaysia so a compromise was made that is the malaysian would operate the condors and command it with the rear mg gunner whilst 10 MOUNTAIN REGT to supply the infantry..im not sure if msia had men on the grd during the actual run to the crash site....
in the ensuing battle 1 msia soldier was fatally wounded and several others injured and 4 of the condors was immobilised and had to be destroyed by heli gunships lest they be misused by the militias...
in nut shell the brunt of the mission was borne by the us and malaysian troops with the pakistanis providing armoured support.
btw the nalaysian batt was the designated QRF(QUICK REACTION FORCE) of the UNOSOM 2 .
:mysterious
New Member
So much for that off-topic discussion, lets get back to what is being discussed and would someone read my last post and help me on that? :roll
Exactly, my thought on this issue is the same, but weve got to remind our selves that its not feasible for Iraq to maintain a Military and a Police, i think the New Army will be the new police. Iaqi police AKA ARMY will have enough trouble to sort out internally. the US can take care of Foreign attacks the US will maintain a strong presence in the Outskirts of cities in essence they will most likely create US Cities for there Forces when they retract and the Iraqi Forces take over. The Iraqi Forces cannot survive with Light armoured vehicles they need heavy turret mounted Vehicles that are durable in comabt and are provide all rounded performance and fire power, its more a of a Syc thing. A show of force to put it out that the Iraqi Armed forces are armed to the teeth. Plus you would have an increased interaction between the Pakistani and the Irai society and there militaries . the Stable well developed Cadre which is British in origin blended with a moderate/Secular culture cannot be adopted from just any Military it takes years to develop and the US would rather have Iraqi Armed forces behave similar to the Pakistani Military establishment, which is pro US.srirangan said:
Besides price per-unit of $1.5 mill is a bargain for basically an Uptodate Ukrainian/Pakistani Platform.
http://pakistantimes.net/2004/12/10/top1.htm
'Pakistan moves swiftly to self-reliance in defence needs'
Pakistan Times Monitoring Report
TAXILA: After having successfully developed state-of-the-art MBT Al-Khalid, the prestigious HIT (Heavy Industries Taxila) is all set to take a major leap towards complete self-reliance in defence as the Institute is at the final stages of establishing AARDIC (Advanced Armoured Research, Development and Integration Complex).
The AARDIC will comprise 30 labs which will be developing advanced armoured, various weapon systems, through reverse engineering besides manufacturing strategic weapon systems for country’s armoured fleets. HIT will also be producing Al-Khalid 1by year 2007 which will be far more advanced than the current Al-Khalid which is being graded by independent defence experts as one of the best MBT in the world.
Bird's eye view
Pakistan's noted journalist Aroosa Alam writes; a day long privileged visit to POF and HIT gave a bird's eye view of the two organisations which have earned millions of foreign exchange through defence exports.
HIT has just fetched a US $ 32 million contract for the sale of various types of APCs and other armoured vehicles to a friendly country and is eyeing for more markets to be captured for these machines in months to come. All together the HIT alone has the saving of 331.13 million US$ during last three years. The money is now spent on the establishment of AARDIC and R&D purposes.
Senior officials at HIT are confident that AARDIC will help engineers and technicians to develop more advanced and strategic weapons and technologies for Al-Khalid and other armoured vehicles which will put Pakistan in the row of countries having highly advanced defence industry.
The officials say that under the prevalent geo-strategic situation Pakistan needs to have a complete self-reliance in defence. There should not be any compromise on national defence which is vitally linked with the economic security of the country.
These officials rightly take great pride in the fact that HIT has developed state-of-the-art Al-Khalid indigenously. “No known anti-tank system can defeat Al-Khalid tank till dateâ€.
Ability of Al-Khalid
The tank has the ability to survive nuclear, chemical and biological warfare. According to them no comparison can be drawn between Indian Arjun and Pakistani Al-Khalid MBT. “Al-Khalid has been a success story.60 tonne, Arjun tank has devoured 250 million US $ for its development over last two decades and so far only 24 tanks have been producedâ€, said an official.
Pakistan army is already has in its inventory 90 Al-Khalids fully operational. The HIT is rolling out 50 Al-Khalids every year and by next year with additional allocations the production will be doubled.
At the moment the HIT is over booked with Pakistan Army’s demand who has placed order for 300 Al-Khalids. Two high level Saudi defence delegations have conducted extensive test and trials of the tank during past few months.
Saudi Arabia, the First customer
The tank will now be dispatched to Saudi Arabia for further trials and Riyadh may become the first customer of Al-Khalid followed by many other Muslim countries who have shown keen interest in this tank.
The Cost
Although senior officials refrain from quoting the exact cost of the tank they do indicate that any tank having capabilities same as Al-Khalid will have a price tag of $17 million per piece. “
I can tell you that you can produce many Al-Khalids in same price but commercial price for this tank will be fixed according to export ordersâ€, they said. In a similar camparis on, officials said that while any Western tank would cost US 8 million dollars per piece, the recently acquired Ukrainian T-80UD have cost 1.5 million per unit to Pakistan Army. “We needed these tanks to defeat Indian T-72â€.
Agility and Mobility
Twenty minutes thrilling ride on Al-Khalid by journalist Aroosa Alam explained the agility and mobility of the tank which thundered through artificially created difficult terrains at the speed of 32 km, demonstrating trench and obstacle crossing with 60% side slop.
Tank also exhibited astonishing bump stop with hydraulic breaks but the gun did not loose the stability. Powered by 1200HP diesel engine, Al-Khalid equally impressed my other course mates who could not have imagined even in their wildest dream that Pakistan can develop such a foolproof mechanised defence system.
The visit of three factories of HIT made everyone proud of our men of excellence who were seen working on these projects with dedication and national commitment.
Al-Khalid’s main gun is 125mm smooth bore with autoloader. The unique feature of Al-Khalid is that it is equipped with auto tracker system. It also has hunter killer capability which can track and engage more than one targets while on the move. The tank can operate fully even during night with thermal imagery systems. Tank’s maximum speed is upto 70km per hour.
Al-Zarrar
Besides Al-Khalid HIT is also rebuilding T-8511AP, T-69HMP, Al-Zarrar and T59MII. Tank Al-Zarrar is yet another success story for HIT. A number of prototype were developed on sound R&D basis for comparative evaluation and trials for the viability of upgradation of Al-Zarrar and finally Pakistan Army decided to induct 50 Al-Zarrars whose second batch was recently handed over by HIT.
40 tons Al-Zarrar has 125mm smooth bore gun with compatible Gun Control System and Semi Auto-loader, Image Stabilised Fire Control Systems, Thermal Imagining, Sight for day and night combat, 730HP engine, Compatible Transmission and Suspension System, and Explosive Reactive Armour.
HIT is very proud to produce FCS (Day Night Fire Control System) which is used to sight and track a static or moving targets during day and night. The system was introduced in Pakistan Army in 1990 and is now being indigenously produced. The system is available with training to countries having T-54/55/59/69 series of tanks.
Mohafiz Security Vehicle
Mohafiz Security Vehicle is another proud product of HIT which has welded Alumiuium Armour hull with ricochet angles all round. The hull is protected against 7.62mm bullet point blank range. The vehicle has bullet proof wind screen and run flat tyres. It can accommodate 8 persons with 10 firing ports.
APC Talha has been designed and manufactured by HIT with Ukrainian engines. It is all terrain, amphibious infantry support vehicle with 12.7mm machine gun as its main armament. Survivability has been enhanced through use of external fuel tanks. Various forms of armour can be added for protection of the vehicle. HIT is also manufacturing Logistic Vehicle Al-Qaswa, and Sakb Command Post Carrier.
APC M113A2MK/1belongs to the family of most widely used combat vehicles in the world today. HIT is producing a variety of APC’s through constant upgradation and rebuild. In its pursuit to achieve high level of excellence, HIT is heavily relying on the valuable contribution of, DESCOM (Development, Engineering Support and Component Manufacturer) and ETRO (Evaluation Training and Research Organisation). HIT has a work force of about 6000 dedicated engineers and highly skilled persons which include 30% uniformed personnel.
But HIT success story does not end here, the top bosses of the Complex in the short time of 11 months have raised from ashes a full fledge Hi-Tech city with University Campus, colleges, and schools. The Hi-Tech Campus spread over many acres is located very close to HIT where students can have education from nursery to the university levels.
Every school, college and university will have its own state-of-the-art labs, gyms, swimming pools and playgrounds. There will also be one Madrassa which will be virtually connected with Saudi Arabia and students will get religious education from Saudi schools or universities. In the middle of this huge complex, a great mosque is being built through donations.
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just makes me proud of pakistan
'Pakistan moves swiftly to self-reliance in defence needs'
Pakistan Times Monitoring Report
TAXILA: After having successfully developed state-of-the-art MBT Al-Khalid, the prestigious HIT (Heavy Industries Taxila) is all set to take a major leap towards complete self-reliance in defence as the Institute is at the final stages of establishing AARDIC (Advanced Armoured Research, Development and Integration Complex).
The AARDIC will comprise 30 labs which will be developing advanced armoured, various weapon systems, through reverse engineering besides manufacturing strategic weapon systems for country’s armoured fleets. HIT will also be producing Al-Khalid 1by year 2007 which will be far more advanced than the current Al-Khalid which is being graded by independent defence experts as one of the best MBT in the world.
Bird's eye view
Pakistan's noted journalist Aroosa Alam writes; a day long privileged visit to POF and HIT gave a bird's eye view of the two organisations which have earned millions of foreign exchange through defence exports.
HIT has just fetched a US $ 32 million contract for the sale of various types of APCs and other armoured vehicles to a friendly country and is eyeing for more markets to be captured for these machines in months to come. All together the HIT alone has the saving of 331.13 million US$ during last three years. The money is now spent on the establishment of AARDIC and R&D purposes.
Senior officials at HIT are confident that AARDIC will help engineers and technicians to develop more advanced and strategic weapons and technologies for Al-Khalid and other armoured vehicles which will put Pakistan in the row of countries having highly advanced defence industry.
The officials say that under the prevalent geo-strategic situation Pakistan needs to have a complete self-reliance in defence. There should not be any compromise on national defence which is vitally linked with the economic security of the country.
These officials rightly take great pride in the fact that HIT has developed state-of-the-art Al-Khalid indigenously. “No known anti-tank system can defeat Al-Khalid tank till dateâ€.
Ability of Al-Khalid
The tank has the ability to survive nuclear, chemical and biological warfare. According to them no comparison can be drawn between Indian Arjun and Pakistani Al-Khalid MBT. “Al-Khalid has been a success story.60 tonne, Arjun tank has devoured 250 million US $ for its development over last two decades and so far only 24 tanks have been producedâ€, said an official.
Pakistan army is already has in its inventory 90 Al-Khalids fully operational. The HIT is rolling out 50 Al-Khalids every year and by next year with additional allocations the production will be doubled.
At the moment the HIT is over booked with Pakistan Army’s demand who has placed order for 300 Al-Khalids. Two high level Saudi defence delegations have conducted extensive test and trials of the tank during past few months.
Saudi Arabia, the First customer
The tank will now be dispatched to Saudi Arabia for further trials and Riyadh may become the first customer of Al-Khalid followed by many other Muslim countries who have shown keen interest in this tank.
The Cost
Although senior officials refrain from quoting the exact cost of the tank they do indicate that any tank having capabilities same as Al-Khalid will have a price tag of $17 million per piece. “
I can tell you that you can produce many Al-Khalids in same price but commercial price for this tank will be fixed according to export ordersâ€, they said. In a similar camparis on, officials said that while any Western tank would cost US 8 million dollars per piece, the recently acquired Ukrainian T-80UD have cost 1.5 million per unit to Pakistan Army. “We needed these tanks to defeat Indian T-72â€.
Agility and Mobility
Twenty minutes thrilling ride on Al-Khalid by journalist Aroosa Alam explained the agility and mobility of the tank which thundered through artificially created difficult terrains at the speed of 32 km, demonstrating trench and obstacle crossing with 60% side slop.
Tank also exhibited astonishing bump stop with hydraulic breaks but the gun did not loose the stability. Powered by 1200HP diesel engine, Al-Khalid equally impressed my other course mates who could not have imagined even in their wildest dream that Pakistan can develop such a foolproof mechanised defence system.
The visit of three factories of HIT made everyone proud of our men of excellence who were seen working on these projects with dedication and national commitment.
Al-Khalid’s main gun is 125mm smooth bore with autoloader. The unique feature of Al-Khalid is that it is equipped with auto tracker system. It also has hunter killer capability which can track and engage more than one targets while on the move. The tank can operate fully even during night with thermal imagery systems. Tank’s maximum speed is upto 70km per hour.
Al-Zarrar
Besides Al-Khalid HIT is also rebuilding T-8511AP, T-69HMP, Al-Zarrar and T59MII. Tank Al-Zarrar is yet another success story for HIT. A number of prototype were developed on sound R&D basis for comparative evaluation and trials for the viability of upgradation of Al-Zarrar and finally Pakistan Army decided to induct 50 Al-Zarrars whose second batch was recently handed over by HIT.
40 tons Al-Zarrar has 125mm smooth bore gun with compatible Gun Control System and Semi Auto-loader, Image Stabilised Fire Control Systems, Thermal Imagining, Sight for day and night combat, 730HP engine, Compatible Transmission and Suspension System, and Explosive Reactive Armour.
HIT is very proud to produce FCS (Day Night Fire Control System) which is used to sight and track a static or moving targets during day and night. The system was introduced in Pakistan Army in 1990 and is now being indigenously produced. The system is available with training to countries having T-54/55/59/69 series of tanks.
Mohafiz Security Vehicle
Mohafiz Security Vehicle is another proud product of HIT which has welded Alumiuium Armour hull with ricochet angles all round. The hull is protected against 7.62mm bullet point blank range. The vehicle has bullet proof wind screen and run flat tyres. It can accommodate 8 persons with 10 firing ports.
APC Talha has been designed and manufactured by HIT with Ukrainian engines. It is all terrain, amphibious infantry support vehicle with 12.7mm machine gun as its main armament. Survivability has been enhanced through use of external fuel tanks. Various forms of armour can be added for protection of the vehicle. HIT is also manufacturing Logistic Vehicle Al-Qaswa, and Sakb Command Post Carrier.
APC M113A2MK/1belongs to the family of most widely used combat vehicles in the world today. HIT is producing a variety of APC’s through constant upgradation and rebuild. In its pursuit to achieve high level of excellence, HIT is heavily relying on the valuable contribution of, DESCOM (Development, Engineering Support and Component Manufacturer) and ETRO (Evaluation Training and Research Organisation). HIT has a work force of about 6000 dedicated engineers and highly skilled persons which include 30% uniformed personnel.
But HIT success story does not end here, the top bosses of the Complex in the short time of 11 months have raised from ashes a full fledge Hi-Tech city with University Campus, colleges, and schools. The Hi-Tech Campus spread over many acres is located very close to HIT where students can have education from nursery to the university levels.
Every school, college and university will have its own state-of-the-art labs, gyms, swimming pools and playgrounds. There will also be one Madrassa which will be virtually connected with Saudi Arabia and students will get religious education from Saudi schools or universities. In the middle of this huge complex, a great mosque is being built through donations.
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just makes me proud of pakistan
An over statement, i don't know what the armour thickness is on this Tank but i would assume theyve overcome some of the problems commonly found with the ERA, the Ukrainians help, But Tanks do get defeated. I would assume this is T-72 based platform based on the T80ud or and improved version.
there are two versions one local Ukrainian Components.and the other export standardized version, which includes German Fire-control Imaging system etc and other various on board computer targeting systems, INcludeing the Main 120mm Gun and the Engine, the rest stays the same, Armour thickness cannot be changed just by adding a extra layer of it , it requires balancing the entire chassis, the Entire platform may become ineffective if the armour is messed around with, weight and the chassis when balanced along with other factors like Weight to power ratio can provide the effective mobility and protection (you decide either be a sprinter or the bully) its a very delicate balance and very specific to each individual design. the ERA can be redesigned extra Modular composite armour can be added but, there is no Tank that can be proclaimed to be indestructible. a direct hit from the Main turret gun in close proximity would surely penitrate anyhull regardless of the armour depth.