Aircraft mounted Anti-Missile Systems

[SpudmanWP]

I think you are confusing raw engine power with the capacity of the onboard electrical generator. The F135's ESG (Elecrical Starter & Generator) made by Hamilton Sundstrand has a capacity of 160kW an the IPP (Integrated Power Pack made by Honeywell) has a capacity of 64kW.

To power a 150kW laser (2 cubic meters) takes a lot more than 100kW of power due to inefficiencies in the laser converter. The only way I can see this working in a F-35B is to swap out the fan for the laser generator and hook the driveshaft up to a 1000kW generator (assuming a 15% power conversion efficiency rate). Put a aerodynamic turret above and below the generator and you can cover 95% of your field of view with the two laser turrets.

F-35 generator & IPP info:
Talking About My Generators

There is even a smaller system (100kw = 1 cubic meter) than the HELADS that is in the works. It is the US Army's JHPSSL project.

A 100-kw.-class JHPSSL stack fits in a 1-meter cube, Wildt says, and with the expected 0.15 efficiency factor, needs 700-800 kw. of input power. The configuration of an operational system will vary by platform, he suggests. “On an all-electric ship, you’d just hook it up to power and cooling. On a smaller platform, you might not need long run times. You could use batteries and a phase-change cooling material, recharge the batteries and re-freeze the coolant between missions.”

http://web02.aviationweek.com/aw/ge...&headline=Laser Weapons Gain Momentum&next=10

The JHPSSL design also benefits from an inherent ability to "steer" the beam electronically in order to correct it's aimpoint within a small field of view.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9JZSjsgWm0"]Joint High Power Solid-State Laser (JHPSSL) Program - YouTube[/nomedia]


One final note. DARPA has a project in the works to develop fiber-based solid state lasers with a power efficiency of 60%. That means that a 150Kw laser will only need 250kW of power and generate 100kw of waste heat. Compare this to HELADS's 15% efficiency that takes 1000kW of power and generates 850kW of waste heat!

 

[My2Cents]

No that's electrical power generated by the engine through the turboshaft. I believe that is more than adequate to power a 100kw solid state laser.

Sure. Just remember that the 100kW figure is the output. The input will probably be around 500kW assuming a 20% conversion efficiency, plus another 30% to 50% for auxiliary systems (primarily cooling for the laser diodes).

 

[lucinator]

Sure. Just remember that the 100kW figure is the output. The input will probably be around 500kW assuming a 20% conversion efficiency, plus another 30% to 50% for auxiliary systems (primarily cooling for the laser diodes).

of course, but even at 20% several mega watts of electrical power would be plenty of power for 100kw design

 

[Armoredpriapism]

of course, but even at 20% several mega watts of electrical power would be plenty of power for 100kw design

It sounds like lasers are getting smaller and more efficient! That's very exciting (I'm a scifi nerd)! I wonder, though, how extensive (and expensive) an f35b upgrade would be to add a small blister turret on its top side? If we're talking about ten years from now having some ef 35s shadowing all us fighter sorties it would foil BVR launches by stealth aircraft. It would, however, be very expensive (though that's almost never stopped the USAF). From the cases made on this thread it seems like lasers will inevitably end up on tactical aircraft, though clearly it's going to be a long and expensive RnD process like every thing else Think where laser outputs were 10 years ago. Think where they'll be 10 years from now.

Would a laser like that be able to extend out to say 40 miles, even if the energy levels at that range would be low? Say a PAK FA or J-20 is off in the distance but keeping stealthy, and only giving low-level radar returns because it's maneuvering or transmitting data. Could a laser mounted in a future f 35 scan the area of those returns and try to either illuminate a stealth aircraft or blister its RAM?

I'm not surprised DARPA is spending money on this; it seems to have a lot of potential.

 

[SpudmanWP]

I wonder if before weapons grade lasers are ready if this can be used as a very long range LIDAR (400-600nm or longer range). Think of adding it to an AWACS since they have room to spare.

 

[My2Cents]

Would a laser like that be able to extend out to say 40 miles, even if the energy levels at that range would be low? Say a PAK FA or J-20 is off in the distance but keeping stealthy, and only giving low-level radar returns because it's maneuvering or transmitting data. Could a laser mounted in a future f 35 scan the area of those returns and try to either illuminate a stealth aircraft or blister its RAM?

I wonder if before weapons grade lasers are ready if this can be used as a very long range LIDAR (400-600nm or longer range). Think of adding it to an AWACS since they have room to spare.

Several countries have/are claiming they have integrated LADAR (Laser radar) into their sensor systems to defeat stealth, and as usually people are claiming that the USA is falling behind because we have not fielded one yet. The facts are that there are a whole bunch of issues and details still being worked out involving everything from the technical details of frequency choice, atmospheric propagation, and scan patterns, to legal issues like the potential for permanently blinding enemy pilots and civilians, and whether or not that would require the system to be classified as a weapon.

Weapons designed to cause blindness are banned by the Geneva Convention. Actually, the Geneva Convention seems to frown upon any weapon that is not designed expressly to kill the enemy, a fact that seems to escape most of its proponents. Even tear gas cannot be used on the battlefield, though the lawyers have managed to weasel word around it for riot control.

 

[dprijadi]

Anyone know the real capabilities of the TOWED DECOY thats used in AWACS and other high value asset aircrafts ? is it passive / jammer type decoy or active / offensive decoy type ?

 

[SpudmanWP]

Both straight jamming and spoofing.

AN/ALE-55 Fiber-Optic Towed Decoy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/bae_prod_eis_fotd.html