Afpak strategy: build and defend supply lines to and through Afghanistan

[Peter Dow]

Democrats of the world UNITE!

The U.S. didn't mind the lack of democracy and human rights in Pakistan

False.

as long as the Pakistani government helped in the 'war against AQ.

If you are referring to bounty dead-or-alive rewards from the US to the Pakistani state for AQ terrorists handed over to the US then say so. Paying bounties does not mean that the US approved of the way Pakistan was governed by the military.

On the contrary, the Pakistani military dictatorship was pressed by the US and its allies to end its rule and to establish democratic elections. They did so, somewhat reluctantly it seems considering all those democratic politicians who have been subsequently assassinated.

This is my tribute video to Benazir Bhutto which features President Bush's US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice speaking about her legacy.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIScjm7JGVc"]Condi's tribute to Benazir Bhutto, martyr for Pakistan - YouTube[/nomedia]

So if you are really looking for those who oppose democracy and human rights of the people of Pakistan then look again at the fascists within the Pakistani state.

- the Pakistanis understood this and they used this to their advantage.

Well the Pakistani state took the bounty rewards but little or none of that money benefited the people I suspect. The state probably spent the reward money from the US on supporting the Taliban to try to kick the US out of Afghanistan - and maybe spent some of the US cash on building more Pakistani nuclear weapons and on other pet-projects of the military.

It is not in the interests or the advantage of the people of Pakistan when their fascist state denies them a functioning democracy and denies human rights and advances its own selfish interests at the expense of the people.

The enemy of the people of Pakistan is the disloyal fascist militaristic state which deeply resents the rival power of democratic politicians and would imprison or kill all democrats if it could get away with it. The friends of the people of Pakistan in the world should help the people to ensure that the Pakistani state is purged of the fascist traitors.

However, you do not help the people by telling the lie that "it is the US who does not mind the lack of democracy and human rights of the people of Pakistan."

I understand that many suspicions about the US exists because of the cold war legacy of the CIA supporting authoritarian regimes whom they imagined might give them some advantage in that cold war but times have changed and when the US does the right thing for democracy in the world then democrats elsewhere in the world must stand squarely and unapologetically with US democrats as I do.

Democrats in one country - such as your Malaysia - who do not openly stand with and support US democrats, are betraying the cause of democracy in the world and so you should rethink.

 

[Peter Dow]

But then as time progressed and the situation in Afghanistan worsened, the U.S. started to divert it's attention to the Taliban, as it realised it was the Taliban and not AQ, that was the main problem and presented the greatest danger.

In as much as a single sentence can explain a complex situation - that's not a bad effort.

Thankfully, the BBC is not limited to one sentence.

BBC Documentary - SECRET PAKISTAN - Double Cross / Backlash (YouTube 1 hour 58 minutes)

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_SkNUorWhc"]Secret BBC - Pakistan Double Cross on Terrorism - Full - YouTube[/nomedia]


If you've not seen that, I recommend you watch it. Then maybe we can talk about what I propose to do about it all.

 

[STURM]

False.

Instead of just a single word, perhaps you would like to elaborate? On my part, I can provide numerous well documented examples to prove my claim that for the first few years after 9/11, the U.S. government didn't give two hoots about Pakistan's lack of democracy and human rights as long as Pakistan co-operated in the so called - 'War On Terror'. In return for his co-operation, Musharaf demanded and got carte blanche from the U.S, with regards to quelling dissent and imposing further controls on the press and judiciary. like many other dictators he jumped on the so called - 'War On Terror' bandwagon and used it as an excuse to do as he wished.

If you are referring to bounty dead-or-alive rewards from the US to the Pakistani state for AQ terrorists handed over to the US then say so.

Actually, I had something else in mind not the issue of bounties for captured terrorists - that's why I didn't mention it.

I understand that many suspicions about the US exists because of the cold war legacy of the CIA supporting authoritarian regimes whom they imagined might give them some advantage in that cold war but times have changed and when the US does the right thing for democracy in the world then democrats elsewhere in the world must stand squarely and unapologetically with US democrats as I do.

What Cold War legacy? The U.S. still supports numerous governments that were never even elected, to suit its national interests. The practice of being very selective with regards to where it wants to promote democracy is still maintained - to say otherwise would be indulging in bliss ignorance and fantasy. And spare me the BS about 'democrats' and doing the right thing'..... 'Suspicions' exist not only due to the Cold War 'legacy' but because flawed and self-serving policies that smack of double standards and hypocrisy, are still being practised today!

Well the Pakistani state took the bounty rewards but little or none of that money benefited the people I suspect.

You 'suspect'?? If you had read any of Ahmad Rashid's books, you would be very aware and wouldn't have to 'suspect' that the bulk of U.S. aid provided to Pakistan has been channeled to the military because the Pakistani military is still obsessed about the threat posed by India. And you would also know that the U.S. has made only half-hearted and totally ineffective attempts to keep track of what its aid is being used for..... And there is a reason as to why the U.S. did this, they simply did not want to add further pressure on Musharraf because that would have further weakened his government and would have lead to further instability in the country.

However, you do not help the people by telling the lie that "it is the US who does not mind the lack of democracy and human rights of the people of Pakistan."

Oh really? I wonder what the people of Pakistan thought when Musharraf declared victory in his rigged elections and all the State Department did was issue slap on the wrist! Where were your freedom loving democrats then? It was only after years of damage caused by Musharraf that the U.S. decided he had to go and convinced him to allow Bhutto to return. Yes the Pakistani's are to blame for the current mess BUT as the U.S. had a lot of cards in their hands, they could, IF they wanted to, have pressured Musharraf to introduce genuine reforms. The only reason Musharraf did what he did was because he knew that he could get way with it - the Pakistani military since 9/11 had been telling the U.S. one thing and had been doing and had been doing the direct opposite! This is due to the fact that in their scheme of things, the Taliban and other groups, still had a major part to play in Pakistan's long term rivalry against India, not only in Afghanistan but also in Kashmir - this important fact seems to have escaped you.

Democrats in one country - such as your Malaysia - who do not openly stand with and support US democrats, are betraying the cause of democracy in the world and so you should rethink.

My 'Malaysia''? So you're adopting that narrow minded, self-serving; ''you're either with us or you're against us'' party line are you? Next you're going to tell me that if only the rest of the world would wake up and realise their error - of not being true democrats - then a lot of the problems we have would be solved and the threat to the free world posed by the 'fascists' and 'jihadists' would be eradicated!? Actually, you're the one who should 'rethink'. I won't even bother responding further to your statement.

 

[Bonza]

Democrats in one country - such as your Malaysia - who do not openly stand with and support US democrats, are betraying the cause of democracy in the world and so you should rethink.

1. This isn't a political forum. This is a defence forum. That means your political rants are totally unwelcome here.
2. Implying other members are "traitors to democracy" if they don't agree with you is offensive, pig-headed garbage.

You're beyond help. Get out of here and don't come back.