ADF recruitment crisis.

[RubiconNZ]

. So i was recommended on the condition i lose 12kg and maintain it for 6months "180cm, 116kg bodybuilder (lean) + BMI = not very good with the doctor, but thats just the way it goes i guess?"
.....so time to lose some muscle, because i've ive never really had a high fat content.

Yeah the ADF is finicky with the BMI, i had a mate who was never fat just stocky, was told he had to loose weight yet I was fine at 194 cm, 110 Kg, but then a slightly raised blood pressure kept me out 130 -70 kept me out even after a 6 week trial in which it stayed at that mark, they said it was high for a 20 yo, yet my GP said it was fine, messed up indeed.

 

[datguy]

yeh it's very dissapointing, given the amount of cardio/aerobic training one would put in, in preparation for recuitment>enlistment.
I only wish they had other means to measure body fat content in the case of us "stocky" candidates, for example 'skinfold calipers' to name one of few. Not sure how accurate this test is compared to the BMI but when done at my gym i was fine.
but rules are rules...and as my medical assessment doctor (ADF) says "all good things come to those who wait"

one thing i can add to this thread...to all those stocky and built but lean, do make sure your BMI is in the healthy range before you goto your assessment...just in case

 

[icelord]

3 people per class of 20 from the current Cerberus classes (100) were over the BMI a week after they got here, yet passed at the doctors before hand...?
The PTI just cleared them after a doctor check and most out passed the "lean" who were under BMI.
Shows how much it works...

 

[Tasman]

one thing i can add to this thread...to all those stocky and built but lean, do make sure your BMI is in the healthy range before you goto your assessment...just in case

I find the whole BMI thing a bit ridiculous as it makes no allowances for particular body types. As a personal example, I had a BMI assessment around 1990 and was over the limit. At that time I was running full marathons (42+ km) and my friends were worried I had cancer because they thought I looked too thin and gaunt (a problem I wish I still had )!

Tas

 

[octopus7]

3 people per class of 20 from the current Cerberus classes (100) were over the BMI a week after they got here, yet passed at the doctors before hand...?
The PTI just cleared them after a doctor check and most out passed the "lean" who were under BMI.
Shows how much it works...

Must have been from all that good navy tucker! I remember reading on the defense website that PT doesn't really start properly for recruits until week 2. Correct me if i'm wrong as I'm hoping to be out at Cerberus mid next year once I get fit enough. Also seeing that you are at Cerberus are new recruits allowed to use the gym and pool facilities? As I have been hitting the gym hard and don't want to hit a wall once I start recruit training.

 

[McTaff]

Correct me if i'm wrong as I'm hoping to be out at Cerberus mid next year once I get fit enough. Also seeing that you are at Cerberus are new recruits allowed to use the gym and pool facilities? As I have been hitting the gym hard and don't want to hit a wall once I start recruit training.

You'll have plenty to do PT wise. As far as I am aware, you don't have a lot of free time to do that sort of stuff. They won't let you go to ruin.

 

[octopus7]

Thanks again McTaff it's great to have somebody here who knows so much about the navy and recruiting etc.
I'm glad that i'll be able to do PT straight away as i'm getting fitter quicker than I expected and don't want to put any weight I have lost (14 kg in 5 weeks so far!) back on.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Thanks for the free comments. I'm sure Web appreciates the extra revenue created from your hits....

 

[McTaff]

There may not be as much PT as you are used to, but the typical outset they'll take is to put you out of your comfort zone. Easiest way is to use PT to do that, and call the hands will probably be piped and you'll have 10 mins to be outside and ready for something exciting every second day.
They'll give you lots to do and very little time to do it in throughout, not always filled with PT but as long as you put in every effort with each task, you can get plenty out of it. A lot of the exercises given out will have the potential for others to slack off. Use that to put in 110% and it'll be like a minor PT session for free.

There will still be plenty of mud runs (last I checked), but I'm going to whistle up a mate of mine that'll give me more of an idea how hard they push you and whether you'll get time.

However, at dinnertime, you typically have a little time to spare. Not much, but you might be able to bang out a quick 50/40/30 or something, then shower and change.

I'll post a bit more when I have more info.

 

[octopus7]

Once again thank you! The mud runs sound interesting. Well at least it sounds like my fitness level will only get better once i'm part of the navy.

 

[Mirac]

Hi fellow Aussies

Just skimmed through this thread and i must say, in my opinion it does seem like recruitment is having issues, I started my application in September, had my JOES on Nov 8, and seems i wont get an assessment day till Jan/Feb, while i wouldn't normally care about the wait, the risk of losing a potential recruit increases as I will have a few different university offers come mid-January, and with my future with the ADF still very uncertain and in the air, I will most likely choose to go with the uni route.

I understand the entire process could be used as a ploy to weed out those who join impulsively and might regret it later on, but it can really frustrate those older, more mature ones who want to do it, but not at the risk of their future.

Secondly, recently a few of my brothers friends have finished year 12 and all applied for the Army, however all 3 got knocked back for having acne, now I am full aware that dirty environments plus acne prone skin aren't a very good combination, but these kids weren't exactly your usual pizza faced kids you see through high school. Now after all 3 were rejected, they all had given up on aspirations of joining the ADF, I did however manage to convince one to give it another shot later on.

It just seems that for a defence force that is screaming for recruits, they make it a very long an arduous process, and doing this has probabaly cost them a lot of potential candidates.

 

[icelord]

Must have been from all that good navy tucker! I remember reading on the defense website that PT doesn't really start properly for recruits until week 2. Correct me if i'm wrong as I'm hoping to be out at Cerberus mid next year once I get fit enough. Also seeing that you are at Cerberus are new recruits allowed to use the gym and pool facilities? As I have been hitting the gym hard and don't want to hit a wall once I start recruit training.

After week 2 your allowed to go to the gym of a night or on wkds depending on lectures. We do PT twice a week as a class and fridays as a division. Once you get into it PT becomes good fun, the 150 push ups per lesson are well earnt after making errors, be warned, PTIs love 2 things, themselves and pain. If you can do push ups and wall Squats you'll love it, if not you'll learn.

And yes i gotta cut back on the duff(dessert) its just too damn good!

 

[Stryker001]

If you want to go to war, the US or IDF is the place to be, unless you get into 4 RAR or the SAS in the ADF. France is also a good place to be under the new Government.

 

[Todjaeger]

If you want to go to war, the US or IDF is the place to be, unless you get into 4 RAR or the SAS in the ADF. France is also a good place to be under the new Government.

Some might join their country's military or defence force to go to war. Personally, I doubt that is why countries with volunteer forces have personnel join up though. I would expect some join for opportunities that can be available in military/government service (travel comes to mind) or access to technical and training resources. Others likely join for the chance to serve their nation. As such, I would not expect those members who are attempting to join the ADF, or have already done so, chose because they wished to go to war.

As for the possibility of a recruitment crisis, given the way recruitment and retention has been described as (not) functioning, that seems a distinct possibility. At some point the various delays and impediments to joining up will begin to overcome the advantages to serving and desires of potential recruits. Making this worse IMV is that those recruits of greatest interest to the ADF (those with greatest potential) are more likely to lose interest sooner since they will have the most options available to them apart from serving in the ADF. This would then begin to limit the recruitment pool to those with fewer options (and capabilities) who because of their limited opportunities, would need to be pressed upon further before the advantages gained through the ADF are outweighed.

Hopefully, steps are being taken to change or correct the current process, which seems to be overly complex and convoluted

-Cheers

 

[Stryker001]

Adf

Some might join their country's military or defence force to go to war. Personally, I doubt that is why countries with volunteer forces have personnel join up though. I would expect some join for opportunities that can be available in military/government service (travel comes to mind) or access to technical and training resources. Others likely join for the chance to serve their nation. As such, I would not expect those members who are attempting to join the ADF, or have already done so, chose because they wished to go to war.

Sounds like being a doctor and not being able to operate.

 

[Stryker001]

Adf

If the ADF wants to increase recruitment and retainment standard six year contracts with the option of re-upping for 1,2, 4 or 6 years contracts.

Allow long hair.
Facial hair.
Less stringent standards on tattoo’s.
50 days holiday periods apart from weekend leave.
Less stringent requirement on criminal matters.
Less stringent requirements on recreational drug matters.
Free education for their off-spring.
Allowing women to be involved in direct combat.
A trial of women in Spec-Ops.
Lifting the age for recruitment into Spec-Ops
A direct recruitment of Women and men of non-Anglo Saxon backgrounds as they are vital for gathering HUMINT in the AO.
The acquirement of Citizenship liked directly to ADF service with in a certain age group 18 to 45 including reserve service. ( this allows ASIO operatives in the ADF to ?)




And perhaps making it so personnel don’t have to by their own equipment.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Allow long hair.
Why? Its the ADF, not the Dutch military...

Facial hair.
Why? It's already permitted in Navy or Specops

Less stringent standards on tattoo’s.
Why? IMV there is a standard of presentation to adhere to. It would also depend on the tatts

50 days holiday periods apart from weekend leave.
Why? and are you suggesting 50 calendar days or working days?

Less stringent requirement on criminal matters.
Disagree. It gets to an issue of moral conduct

Less stringent requirements on recreational drug matters.
Disagree. It gets to an issue of moral conduct

Free education for their off-spring.
Disagree. OTJ for those who serve, definitely. Although the old days of ex servicemen getting priority in the queue was a good idea.

Allowing women to be involved in direct combat.
No problems with it as long as they are up to the job

A trial of women in Spec-Ops.
No problems with it as long as they are up to the job

Lifting the age for recruitment into Spec-Ops
The ave age of SASR is generally higher than some other nations due to the principle that ADF regard that a higher age means that the operator is generally more life skill exposed, and by association, generally more mature in outlook. They want life skill maturity. This has taken a back seat due to specwarrie shortages and people wandering off to join PMC's

A direct recruitment of Women and men of non-Anglo Saxon backgrounds as they are vital for gathering HUMINT in the AO.
Its not easy targetting "ethno" demographics. There are however a number of australian chinese, vietnamese, middle easterm european backgrounds than in the past

The acquirement of Citizenship liked directly to ADF service with in a certain age group 18 to 45 including reserve service. ( this allows ASIO operatives in the ADF to ?)
ASIO entry standards are significantly higher. The security assessment alone is more stringent, plus there is psych profiling etc ......... conducted.

Are you suggesting that citizenship be offered as a reward for service? If so that becomes difficult as the issue of the individual using classified tech, getting access to classified areas, performing their job effectively would be an issue. It would mean very very basic entry and then you'd have to set a probationary period. If they are a foreign citizen, then the security assessments become expensive. (Contractors are charged for running security assessments on staff nominated for sensitive positions). Proper security assessments for Aust citizens take 3 months and are expensive. Commonwealth, NATO country and US assessments would be longer, outside of that, then you have to start questioning the benefit.

Thats why the preference is to take people who already have been security assessed, or are within the 3 year exit window. (Your clearance remains active and valid for 3 years even after exit, you still need to be assessed, but it can be fast tracked)

And perhaps making it so personnel don’t have to by their own equipment.
Thta's always unacceptable for general entry, at higher levels though some operators prefer their own kit even if its not suppoed to happen. Specwarries tend to be able to get away with it due to obvious reasons. (not weapons etc, but "articles")

 

[Aussie Digger]

If the ADF wants to increase recruitment and retainment standard six year contracts with the option of re-upping for 1,2, 4 or 6 years contracts.

Allow long hair.

Only during basic training are you required to have a "shaved" crew cut style haircut. You can have longer hair later in your service, though a neat appearance is always required.

Facial hair.

And have your respirator seal wonderfully too, eh?

Again, a neat appearance is required and is hardly a significant burden. If you TRULY must have facial hair, you can always join the RAN which has a more relaxed attitude towards facial hair than other services.

Less stringent standards on tattoo’s.

You'll find PLENTY of servicemen who have a large number of tatts....

50 days holiday periods apart from weekend leave.

Learn what the letters BRL stand for.

Less stringent requirement on criminal matters.

How about those with criminal records or those planning to do so, take some responsibility for their own actions? It is Government policy across the breadth of Government to not accept those with certain criminal convictions.

Not all "criminal records" automatically exclude you from ADF service, but they are certainly taken into account.

Less stringent requirements on recreational drug matters.

Once again, how about taking responsibility for your own actions? If you want to be in ADF, don't take drugs. Take your pick, it's not exactly rocket science.

Free education for their off-spring.

Free education is available for everybody in Australia already. Can they somehow make it free'er?

Allowing women to be involved in direct combat.

No problems with this, provided women CAN demonstrably meet the same physical standards as men employed in infantry, artillery, armour and specwarops roles.

A trial of women in Spec-Ops.

Again, provided they can demonstrably maintain the same physical standards as men, I don't have a problem with it. However I don't expect many are up to the challenge, not many men are afterall, even fewer women are going to be suitable.

Lifting the age for recruitment into Spec-Ops

There is no set age for recruitment into SOCOMD units that I am aware of. However the nature, discipline, physical capacity and maturity of those recruited into SOCOMD, generally result in slightly older soldiers. There is no technical reason why an 18 year old couldn't meet the requirements for SOCOMD, but for a variety of reasons, is unlikely to happen.

A direct recruitment of Women and men of non-Anglo Saxon backgrounds as they are vital for gathering HUMINT in the AO.

So you're in favour of reverse discrimination? ADF should be seeking to make service life as attractive as possible for ALL members of society, not a particular cross-section.

Personally I think language training for serving soldiers should be a priority, being actually able to speak to locals is always going to be more useful than simply "resembling" them...

The acquirement of Citizenship liked directly to ADF service with in a certain age group 18 to 45 including reserve service. ( this allows ASIO operatives in the ADF to ?)

ASIO operatives in ADF?

Otherwise I don't have a problem linking ADF service to citizenship, provided security vetting is adequately performed. Private Industry "sponsor" certain individuals for citizenship all the time. I think it could be useful for ADF to do the same, particularly for those "specialised skill" areas that ADF find difficult to recruit for...




And perhaps making it so personnel don’t have to by their own equipment.[/quote]

 

[Waylander]

There is no facial hair allowed in the Aussie Army?
Just because of the respirator problem or does it has more to do with traditions...?

 

[Stryker001]

Adf

If things are so good why is there a problem in recruitment, in a time of invasion may of the requirements are wavered, as society moves forward so in some aspects defense needs to also. Nothing is free in life.

Freedom is not Free