Absalon Class Combat / Flexible Support Ship

[hvidtfeldt]

Thanks Kato
Your answer pretty much say everything !

Regarding my personal feelings for Sweden and Swedes ( I am danish and somewhat nationalistic :rel )

I enjoy visting Sweden and have good working relations with my Swedish collegaues.
Yes there are cultural differences but they are not very big nor are they an obstacle.
My Swedish collegaues are very professional, efficient and good company (I am an IT specialist)
And when it comes the swedish defence and aviation industry I have nothing but the deepest respect for what they have accomplished.
Yes there might be better/cheaper/cooler products available, but Swedish aircraft ,ships,weapons and other stuff are generally of very high standards and able to compete on equal term with stuff from much larger countries.

No I rest my case THS - but I hope you'll think twice before you write more anti-swedish and anti eastern postings.

 

[regstrup]

As to the main weapons: Well frigates now a days use the helicopters as their main armament, so quotations of essentially short range weapons for self- and task force protection confirms that.

I can only say that, this is not the case with the danish patrolships, as the danish navy by now only operates the Lynx helicopter, which normally dosen't carry any weapons. The only weapons that has been mounted on the danish Lynx is two crewserved 12.7mm MG M/50 to be use against asymmetric treaths.

As you can se of my last post and the link to the website of the danish defence, all of the armament will be placed stationary on the ships.

 

[Grand Danois]

Bad news from DR news site. Rough translation.

http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2007/12/06/161040.htm?nyheder

New helos are more in maintenance than in the air

The new SAR helos of the type EH101 are so heavy in maintenance that the Air Force only expect them to be available 40% of the time for each individual helo.

The number will be increased from 8 to 14. The six new helos have already been procured (the six TTH, which was transferred to the UK), but will now be used as SAR helos instead.

Eight S-61 has been enough the past 40 years to cover that mission, but with the high demand for maintenace of the new helos, the Air Force don't expect 8 to be enough. The S-61 which should already have been retired will be part of the rescue service for two more years.

-------------------

Methinks that the EH-101 just went a notch down the ladder for new maritime helos for the Absalons and patrol frigates.:shudder

 

[kato]

Ouch.

Although - the EH101 for Denmark were partly locally produced, by Terma (is there anything they don't do?). Could be related?

 

[Grand Danois]

Ouch.

It's definitely in the "WTF?" department.

Although - the EH101 for Denmark were partly locally produced, by Terma (is there anything they don't do?). Could be related?

I suspect - but cannot know - that it may be a local problem, as I haven't heard anything like this on the EH-101 variants the UK use. (OTOH Gordo really has enough publicity problems at the mo )

But have no clue if it is Terma or lack of technicians etc...

An analysis is to be made and given to the min of def after christmas.

The fact that it has come public is somewhat concerning, as it could indicate the problems are not minor and has to go to a high political level to be managed. Either that, or it a new openess on such issues.

I wonder if there is going to be a merge of deals of the 6 EH-101 "to be delivered" and the 4 maritime helos, that has yet to undergo a selection of type. 14 SAR helos will be too much - even with 40% availability rates.

 

[Grand Danois]

It's definitely in the "WTF?" department.



I suspect - but cannot know - that it may be a local problem, as I haven't heard anything like this on the EH-101 variants the UK use. (OTOH Gordo really has enough publicity problems at the mo )

But have no clue if it is Terma or lack of technicians etc...

An analysis is to be made and given to the min of def after christmas.

The fact that it has come public is somewhat concerning, as it could indicate the problems are not minor and has to go to a high political level to be managed. Either that, or it a new openess on such issues.

I wonder if there is going to be a merge of deals of the 6 EH-101 "to be delivered" and the 4 maritime helos, that has yet to undergo a selection of type. 14 SAR helos will be too much - even with 40% availability rates.

It seems the major problem is the lack of mechanics (but also spares). How transferring 6 TTH to SAR solves this problem is beyond me. The Brits are getting 80% avail rates in Iraq according to the producer...

 

[Grand Danois]

12/06/2007

Successful firing of Oerlikon Millennium during trials of the Royal Danish Navy's first Absalon-class flexible combat support ship, HDMS Absalon

Oerlikon Millennium 35 mm naval gun systems successfully engaged surface and air targets during live-fire trials aboard HDMS Absalon, the Royal Danish Navy's first Absalon-class flexible combat support ship. The trials took place during the first and third weeks of November.

The test firings formed part of sea trials and Sea Acceptance Tests (SAT) off the Danish coast. Practice ammunition and Oerlikon Ahead ammunition – like the guns, both made by Rheinmetall subsidiary Oerlikon Contraves – were used to engage both air and surface targets. Danish personnel operated the guns, having already received operation and maintenance training during summer 2007. According to DALO (Danish Defence Acquisition and Logistics Organization), the firings with the two Oerlikon Millennium guns were successful and its SAT was completed during the third November week.

The HDMS Absalon is equipped with two Millennium guns, one forward and one aft. The Royal Danish Navy is the launch customer for series production of the Oerlikon Millennium naval gun system, having ordered six guns in 2004 with an option for a further four. Production for further customers is also underway. Absalon-class final SAT for the Millennium guns and the 127 mm gun is planned for week 13 or 14 in 2008.

The Royal Danish Navy decided to equip its Absalon-class ships and patrol vessels with Millennium because of Oerlikon's state-of-the-art Ahead ammunition and revolver gun technology, both of which assure an outstanding multi-mission capability. The Oerlikon Ahead principle – a proprietary development of Oerlikon Contraves – significantly increases the probability of hits, aided by a high rate of fire. The Millennium can fire 1,000 rounds per minute, with each round containing 152 tungsten sub-projectiles. This advanced ammunition, combined with sustained firepower and high precision, enables numerous engagements at extended ranges before reloading.

Taken together, these make Oerlikon Millennium ideal for the following roles:

* air defence against missiles at distances three to four times greater than conventional close-in weapon systems (CIWS);

* anti-surface warfare, fulfilling US Navy requirements against Fast Incoming Attack Crafts (FIAC) threats;

* naval gunfire support: the effect of Oerlikon Ahead ammunition on infantry and lightly armoured targets enable highly effective suppression of enemy fire during operations to extract friendly personnel.

http://www.rheinmetall-detec.de/index.php?fid=4494&lang=3

Follow link for pics.

 

[Jezza]

Thanks for the link and pictures Grand Danois

 

[Ths]

Grand Danois: About the Merlin.

There is always problems with new systems - just remember the problems the F-15 had in its younger days. If You know the "bathtub" maintainance curve You know what I mean.

Secondly: The Airforce is in restructuring. Værløse closing means that a lot of the experienced maintainence personel is retiring - some early.

Thirdly: It could partly be a ploy to make the Merlin producers a bit unsure about future orders.

On the whole: It would be surprising if this didn't surface.

There is also the possibility of a desire for increased coverage - I know the thought for increased SAR responsability to Denmark has been put forward. If this comes down to the investment in extra kits for the helo's it would be cheap. 6 extra could give 2 more 24/7 hour alerts.

 

[Grand Danois]

It seems the major problem is the lack of mechanics (but also spares). How transferring 6 TTH to SAR solves this problem is beyond me. The Brits are getting 80% avail rates in Iraq according to the producer...

But it may only the case in Iraq. 50% is apparently the norm...

 

[Ths]

Grand Danois: Seems fairly accurate estimate of time in service: The more total flying hours, the bette availability.

 

[Grand Danois]

Pics of some recent weapons trials.

ESSM http://www.navalhistory.dk/Danish/Billedserier/2008_ABSLmissil/ABSLaffyrerESSM.htm

Harpoon
http://www.navalhistory.dk/Danish/SoevaernsNyt/2008/0424_missiltest.htm

 

[Grand Danois]

My quick n dirty translation:

TF 150 - Task Force 150

The command and support-ship ABSALON with the Navy's tactical Staff on board will be departing Denmark Aug. 17 in order to take over command of Task Force 150 off the Horn of Africa Sept. 15..

The operation is planned to last until Jan. 6., and is to include up to 160 employees.

Task Force 150 is part of Operation Enduring Freedom. The geographic operations for Task Force 150 is large, covering more than 6000 mile coastline from the Red Sea to the Straits of Hormuz (in the Gulf), and from the Straits of Hormuz and down to the border between Somalia and Kenya.

The mission of Task Force 150 is to exercise MSO (Maritime Security Operations), which is a comprehensive concept, but it includes combating piracy, illicit arms smuggling and combat terroristrelated activity at sea. In addition, another of the main tasks to provide educational support for nations such as Djibouti, so that the weaker nations themselves will be able to exercise control on its own territorial waters.

The force was under command of the German Navy until december 2006, after whom Britain took over the command of CTF 150. After Britain, Pakistan took over command, then it was France's tour and is currently Canada holding this position of the force.

The Navy has also previously participated in Task Force 150 with liaison officers on the ships and in Bahrain. When ABSALON sails, there will also be Danish officers in Bahrain and a logistical support centre in Djibouti.

http://forsvaret.dk/SOK/Internationalt/TF+150/

 

[swerve]

Seems well-suited to the task.

 

[Grand Danois]

Seems well-suited to the task.

Yes, it's almost as if it was made for this kind of mission. Staff facilities, C2, and frigate class selfdefence, with only 100 crew in a relatively cheap hull.

Last year Thetis (OPV) didn't bring a helo, but Absalon will have a Lynx on this deployment and probably also RQ-11s.

 

[kato]

Interesting, as the only relevant training exercise i'm aware of (NOCO 07) only had Absalon as CTG lead unit for a small boat ASuW group. Although the task in that exercise was exactly what TF150 is doing.

 

[swerve]

Yes - has this deployment been long-planned? Or maybe someone had half an eye on it, & thought it best to be ready.

Only one helicopter? I thought she could operate two, & I'd think that more is better for this job. Lynx is quite enough helicopter for the job, I'd say. It can patrol, & if necessary plink fast boats, as well as something bigger.

Will she have any troops aboard? I'd think there could be work for a few.

 

[Grand Danois]

Dunno for how long it has been planned, but it's been in the cards for a long time.

Absalon can take two EH-101s, however the Lynx is currently the only maritimised helo in the Danish inventory. They're worked hard, particularly in the North Atlantic, so I didn't expect any to be available. One will have to do . There are plans to procure 4 new maritme helos in the future, we shall see in the 2009-2013 defence budget.

As I said, Thetis didn't bring any along when she escorted ships for the WFP to Somalia last year. She did bring special forces and drones with her though.

 

[Jezza]

Grand Danois please keep the updates coming
I would love to hear the results

 

[Grand Danois]

13 August 2008:

Terma to provide Multi Link capability for the Royal Danish Navy

Integrated Systems

Terma has secured a contract to provide Multi Link capability to the Royal Danish Navy’s Flexible Support Ships and Frigates. The Multi Link solution will be fully integrated into the Terma C-Flex Command & Control System onboard the five ships. The application will assure the ships participation on both Link-11 and Link-16 network, and is prepared for future Link-22 capability.
C-Flex is the new generation of Terma’s Command & Control Systems for a wide range of naval ships and patrol vessels. The systems are balanced in complexity and cost, pending the type of ships, and range from very small, single operator systems to large systems of 35+ operators.

The modular and highly scalable C-Flex architecture is designed to support multiple configurations. The concept of installing software per ship, based on the actual installed systems, provides for utilizing a basic system with variations according to ship configuration or across different ship classes. The combat system will thus support upgrades, variation between ships or even if equipment is transferred from one ship to another. In short, C-Flex secures flexibility in equipment and low cost in development, training and maintenance.

The tactical data link processor chosen to interface with the C-Flex is the Ultra Multi Link System (MLS) based on the Multi Link Processor (MLP) family of products providing critical data exchange capabilities to airborne, land and maritime users. The MLS is a single Line Replaceable Unit (LRU) with embedded Link-11 Crypto, Data Terminal Set (DTS), and processor card. The combination of the MLS and C-Flex thus provide the possibility of an extremely compact and price competitive solution providing full situational awareness including Link-11 and Link-16 network participation, with nearly no platform limitations as a result.

Ultra has more than 65 years of experience within design, development and certification of Crypto products. The BID/2200 crypto, used for this programme, is the only NATO approved Link-11 crypto enabling interoperability with legacy KG-40A systems.

The modular architecture of the MLS allows the functionality and capability to be tailored to meet the Danish Navy’s requirements. For the Danish Navy, the MLS will host Link-11 and Link-16 Air Defense Systems Integrator (ADSI) software delivered by Ultra Electronics – Advanced Tactical Systems (Austin, Texas). More than 750 ADSI systems have been sold worldwide ensuring interoperability with many nations.

The MLS configuration will complement Ultra’s existing range of data link products which are in service around the world and offers the Danish Navy upgrade paths into Link-22 in the future.

[...]

http://www.terma.com/