Cour internationale de Justice
About the aircraft carrier plan of China
- Thread starter bjskyhorse
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As cash strapped as Ukraine is... With a revamped Varyag worth over a billion. I'd do it for sure... what do they have to lose to try? China already turned their nose to An-70. Ukraine might want to retrieve lost revenue any way they can.
Its a commercial contract - and as such the only complainant who can lodge are the Ukrainians.
I really can't see the Ukrainians making a song and dance about a breach in the spirit of contract when they're more interested in doing extra business with China.
I'd say that their care factor evaporated as soon as the money hit the bank - and the clause was more of a mollification attempt for the US and Russians than out of any form of real concern.
ICJ wouldn't even bother.
China is not on the same path as Japan before WW2. Japan was dragged along by its own army, which murdered (openly, with no pretence about who'd done it) politicians who opposed it, had no understanding of nor interest in economics, & was riddled with factions intent on carving out their own fiefs in China, & willing to murder members of other factions. China has subordinated military aims to political & economic. It won't start a war which will threaten its economy, as the IJA did. It'll fight only to protect its economy.
China doesn't have the option of starting a war before the USA is ready, since China is the country which is not ready. And Chinese politicians don't see any imminent threat. China is not being deprived of essential resources by the USA. Nor do they fear for themselves personally, since they have soundly established the principle of peacefully retiring old leaders. Even if they're forced out of office, they're not physically harmed, & only one of those kicked out in the last 30 years has had his liberty restricted (Zhao Ziyang - rather comfortable house arrest). Others have remained free & politically active, though with reduced influence.
Equally, there is no parallel with Gorbachev. He tried to liberalise both society & the economy, while keeping Communist control of both. Political liberalism rapidly outpaced economic change & the whole thing fell apart. The Chinese deliberately followed a different path, & started it several years before Gorbachev. They freed the economy piecemeal, while keeping politics tightly under control. The Chinese economy is now far more capitalist, far freer, than Gorbachev intended the Soviet economy ever to be, but political liberalisation is proceeding very slowly. They're already far past the point at which they could have a Gorbachev-style crisis. The nearest they got to it was in 1989, when Zhao Ziyang was sacked & the Tianmen square massacre was carried out.
China could very well have other crises (plenty of scenarios have been mooted), but not those two.
lokyuen12345
New Member
Chinese Government
China is a country without the strategic pressure from other countries like the WWII times Germany, and without such dictatorship of Hitlar. Chinese president is always seeking a way to:
i) Improve self economy to be a powerful nation
ii) Improve relationship with others countries like Europe, Africa, and S. America and also USA in a peaceful way, hope to be strategic and economic partner
iii) resist and potential threat from Japan, India and hopefully solve out the Taiwan issue.
iv) And quite important one: Solve out he internal proverty problem, senior officers corruptsions, and many other issue like counterfeit and posion food.
China military power is just 20% compared to USA, she got no super air superiority, no hundreds of warships, evern no aircraft carriers and stealthy bombers which is solely desgined for offense position. No mention that she would start a war.
Try study more about china history. China is a really wonderful nation with a talent on self-destroy, and really without ambitions like US and Japan. While Japanese is crazy, and eveyone knew that, esp in WW2, even in current situation, Japan is still wanting to be Asian super power, they have a special emotion (the right side politics) to beat china, to kill chinese, and of course destroy china at all cost. After doing that, imaginably, then the next target is US, it is undoubedly, so I really don;t understand US why helping Japan in this way, money? Japanese is just such a nation, without trust without loyalty, just offense ambitions. Don;t you see their effort on building aircraft carrier, nuclear weapons? (Why I say about Japan, Let us compare these two giants in Asia you will understand)
While Why I said china is a nation with a talent on self-destroy. On Mao's leadership, CHina is almost jumped back to stone age after his few revolutions including Clutural and Economic one. While to Wo now, they finally got the power and money to do what Japanese hoping to do, at least with modernize military power, esp nuclear weapons in thousand of continental ballistic missiles armed. This is the power enough to destroy US + Japan + taiwan manytimes. You trust the anti-missles system? Hope you not...If they really want to be the super power in the Japanese way, they will wait here and just sit here continuing manufacturing your shoe? No, they are definitely going to occupy Japan, Taiwan, and even south asia just like Janpanese did. If they really those country you said about, they will handle the N.Korea issue like that? Why keep a nuclear bomb carrying crazy neightborhood, esp so close to Beijing, why don;t just take him out? China vs NKorea is a war with no doubt who will be the easy winner... Why solve that problem with no much peace involved?
You may say without such power comparatively to that time of Japan! Maybe, but why they don;t import more weapons from russia? At least russian wants to sell! The military annual spending of US is 400 billions! 22 billions even plus those without official declarations, 50 billions are the maximum number. Japan? (Do some homework, chech it yourself, the japanese governemnt took so much tax from it's population just because only one things, support her army? What this army do? For self defense only? Check their equipments and distinguish those with offense type and defense type, you'll know that)
So we can conclude one thing: China have no intention to occupy any places, any countries, and any land if it originally not belongs to its own, and don;t mention those it should be belongs to them, such as Taiwan (Special case of coz), Close boundaries between India and China, okinawa (should originally belongs to chinese hundred of years ago, after WW2, japan occupied, and later give to US for military operation, and now belongs to japan already). The chinese leadership always tried to solve things in peaveful way, no military operation even she got such power, but they need to anti-US, in Iraq issue, Iran, they secretly supply and supply weapons to counter US. That is also their tactics, don't start a war, but also stop you start a war. (You and me of coz knew that, Bush solving problem got only one way! "Launch the missles! General!") As US continuing occupy so much spaces, with Iraq and Iran, they will be going to control global oil supply, that is unfavorable option to Europe and Russia, of coz china, so why US army always struck back in Iraq and can't go for Iran? Europe, Russia and China are the dark-side players. Check political board you will know more about that
If you are anti-chinese, then hope that you can get over it...
###
You are really anti-chinese or really-not-understand china. Let me explain the real situation to you.
China is a country without the strategic pressure from other countries like the WWII times Germany, and without such dictatorship of Hitlar. Chinese president is always seeking a way to:
i) Improve self economy to be a powerful nation
ii) Improve relationship with others countries like Europe, Africa, and S. America and also USA in a peaceful way, hope to be strategic and economic partner
iii) resist and potential threat from Japan, India and hopefully solve out the Taiwan issue.
iv) And quite important one: Solve out he internal proverty problem, senior officers corruptsions, and many other issue like counterfeit and posion food.
China military power is just 20% compared to USA, she got no super air superiority, no hundreds of warships, evern no aircraft carriers and stealthy bombers which is solely desgined for offense position. No mention that she would start a war.
Try study more about china history. China is a really wonderful nation with a talent on self-destroy, and really without ambitions like US and Japan. While Japanese is crazy, and eveyone knew that, esp in WW2, even in current situation, Japan is still wanting to be Asian super power, they have a special emotion (the right side politics) to beat china, to kill chinese, and of course destroy china at all cost. After doing that, imaginably, then the next target is US, it is undoubedly, so I really don;t understand US why helping Japan in this way, money? Japanese is just such a nation, without trust without loyalty, just offense ambitions. Don;t you see their effort on building aircraft carrier, nuclear weapons? (Why I say about Japan, Let us compare these two giants in Asia you will understand)
While Why I said china is a nation with a talent on self-destroy. On Mao's leadership, CHina is almost jumped back to stone age after his few revolutions including Clutural and Economic one. While to Wo now, they finally got the power and money to do what Japanese hoping to do, at least with modernize military power, esp nuclear weapons in thousand of continental ballistic missiles armed. This is the power enough to destroy US + Japan + taiwan manytimes. You trust the anti-missles system? Hope you not...If they really want to be the super power in the Japanese way, they will wait here and just sit here continuing manufacturing your shoe? No, they are definitely going to occupy Japan, Taiwan, and even south asia just like Janpanese did. If they really those country you said about, they will handle the N.Korea issue like that? Why keep a nuclear bomb carrying crazy neightborhood, esp so close to Beijing, why don;t just take him out? China vs NKorea is a war with no doubt who will be the easy winner... Why solve that problem with no much peace involved?
You may say without such power comparatively to that time of Japan! Maybe, but why they don;t import more weapons from russia? At least russian wants to sell! The military annual spending of US is 400 billions! 22 billions even plus those without official declarations, 50 billions are the maximum number. Japan? (Do some homework, chech it yourself, the japanese governemnt took so much tax from it's population just because only one things, support her army? What this army do? For self defense only? Check their equipments and distinguish those with offense type and defense type, you'll know that)
So we can conclude one thing: China have no intention to occupy any places, any countries, and any land if it originally not belongs to its own, and don;t mention those it should be belongs to them, such as Taiwan (Special case of coz), Close boundaries between India and China, okinawa (should originally belongs to chinese hundred of years ago, after WW2, japan occupied, and later give to US for military operation, and now belongs to japan already). The chinese leadership always tried to solve things in peaveful way, no military operation even she got such power, but they need to anti-US, in Iraq issue, Iran, they secretly supply and supply weapons to counter US. That is also their tactics, don't start a war, but also stop you start a war. (You and me of coz knew that, Bush solving problem got only one way! "Launch the missles! General!") As US continuing occupy so much spaces, with Iraq and Iran, they will be going to control global oil supply, that is unfavorable option to Europe and Russia, of coz china, so why US army always struck back in Iraq and can't go for Iran? Europe, Russia and China are the dark-side players. Check political board you will know more about that
If you are anti-chinese, then hope that you can get over it...
###
Lokyuen... we really don't have room for racist talk like this. Ths didn't say anything offensive like these comments about what you said to the Japanese. That was several generations ago... let the hate go already.
If you are anti-japanese, then hope that you can get over it...
China isn't following the path of the Japanese or the Soviets. I highly doubt there would be an another open conflict between the U.S. and the PRC. Our economies rely to much on one another today to survive without each other. The Chinese don't have the grand racial superiority complex preWW2 military Japan had. China has the territory and economy to grow and expand, Japan did not. The Soviet Union was always trying to be on par or out do the U.S. in military technology. I think China is taking the perspective that they probably won't have the most advance military in the world, but one good enough not even the U.S. would want to mess with them. Their concern in the future is how they will hand internal social and enteral crisis's.
lokyuen12345
I don't think Japan is trying to become another Asian super power. Yes they committed horrible crimes against the people of China and Korea, but that was in World War 2. It would be like you accusing Germany today of trying to take over Europe all over again. For the world to move forward and people gain understanding about each other we all have to forgive the crimes of the past. What has Japan done recently that would be Imperialistic or Fascist? They could be build nuclear weapons but said they won't. Don't say horrible things like that especially on this site. This is place for everyone to express their opinions on defence and military not racial stereotypes and slurs. :mad3
I don't think Japan is trying to become another Asian super power. Yes they committed horrible crimes against the people of China and Korea, but that was in World War 2. It would be like you accusing Germany today of trying to take over Europe all over again. For the world to move forward and people gain understanding about each other we all have to forgive the crimes of the past. What has Japan done recently that would be Imperialistic or Fascist? They could be build nuclear weapons but said they won't. Don't say horrible things like that especially on this site. This is place for everyone to express their opinions on defence and military not racial stereotypes and slurs. :mad3
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lokyuen12345
New Member
Actually, you mis-understood my position, I was trying to explain that China have very close percentage to become WWIII starter, and by explaining that, comparaing to Japan is a excellent proposition, esp Japan was WWII starter. And they are neightbors too!
Admin:
Everyone please take care in how you word your replies. Anything that smacks of racism will be edited and the poster warned. Repeated warnings will result in suspension.
Everyone please take care in how you word your replies. Anything that smacks of racism will be edited and the poster warned. Repeated warnings will result in suspension.
We have all read China's White Papers... we know about the peaceful rise to power. They won't attempt anything until they have a reasonable chance at success and that means leveling the playing field to parity with what the US can bring.
lokyuen12345
New Member
Check this map:
http://www2.cnn.com/WORLD/9610/07/newsbriefs/japan.island.dispute.lg.jpg
That reported that Japan has sent its naval army to take over the island, that island I think is so far away from Japan ( a country far a way), for god sake, is that still their territory? I though it should belongs to taiwan.
And I am not a racist against Japanese, and no racism posted, just a analysis of Chian and Japan military intention, and analysis on chances that china would be WW3 starter.
Japan isn't the one who claims everything in the China Seas just because they are called the CHINA SEA!!!
lokyuen12345
Japan isn't the only one in disputed islands in the Pacific. China is in the Spartly Islands, that is claimed by among others Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam. They all have military forces on the Spartlys vying for control of the oil prospects. Its normal pretty normal for that region of the world to have these disputes. Japan isn't being imperialistic their just doing what everyone else is doing.
Japan isn't the only one in disputed islands in the Pacific. China is in the Spartly Islands, that is claimed by among others Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam. They all have military forces on the Spartlys vying for control of the oil prospects. Its normal pretty normal for that region of the world to have these disputes. Japan isn't being imperialistic their just doing what everyone else is doing.
Thats true, but I suspect that the Ukrainians are more commercial pragmatists than commercial litigants.
their focus is to take sales from russia and belarus. its surprising how the potential promise of revenue can turn off the litigation tap.
weasel1962
New Member
Re:
Btw, tot China had already launched 3 Type 93s?
Btw, tot China had already launched 3 Type 93s?
bjskyhorse
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #59
I think China will not become a country like Japan before ww2.To us,we hope to own aircraft carrier because we have to protect our lands far from mainland .And we also need to get oil from other countries safely.This all need aircraft carrier.
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