John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Well Russia might collapse but China, no way. China will probably end up with Russia or Siberia at the very least.
6th Generation Fighters Projects
- Thread starter Sandhi Yudha
- Start date
Both countries showed interest in the F-22s. Perhaps Japan more than Australia. I think there will be an ongoing assessment of the capabilities of China to conduct long range strike missions going into the 2030s and beyond. In this day and age I wouldn't dismiss the idea entirely.
The US is the most demanding operator of high performance aviation for the last 70 years, and if we consider stealth/EMCOM controlled platforms from the U-2 onwards, the one with the most experience with LO.
With that as a baseline, I am sure they know which areas they want to "supercede". However, on the basis of pure physics, (kinematics, signature mgmt) though, I doubt the leap would be as dramatic as going from a F-16 to a F-22.
Where the F-22 was lacking in a Indo-Pacific theatre might well the some of key drivers for the design. Long range, better networking capabilities, autonomy, MUMT etc.
The interesting thing to note is the apparent (let's assume that they were not messing with the images as part of disinformation) presence of canards.
Source: U.S. Air Force on Instagram: "Meet the future of air dominance! President Donald Trump, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, & Chief of Staff of the Air Force Gen. David Allvin officially announced the U.S. Air Force's 6th-generation fighter jet, the F-47, March 21, 2025! This platform will be the most advanced, lethal, & adaptable fighter ever developed. ️ U.S. Air Force graphic @potus @realdonaldtrump @deptofdefense @petehegseth #airdominance #fighter #jet #6thgen #F47 #airpower"
Source: U.S. Air Force on Instagram: "Meet the future of air dominance! President Donald Trump, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, & Chief of Staff of the Air Force Gen. David Allvin officially announced the U.S. Air Force's 6th-generation fighter jet, the F-47, March 21, 2025! This platform will be the most advanced, lethal, & adaptable fighter ever developed. ️ U.S. Air Force graphic @potus @realdonaldtrump @deptofdefense @petehegseth #airdominance #fighter #jet #6thgen #F47 #airpower"
GuyfromBrisbane
New Member
The nose shape, canopy shape, canards all look similar (but not exactly the same) with this Boeing concept image for the Navy's F/A-XX. Could hint to what the rest of it looks like potentially. Could also mean that Boeing's offerings for both Air Force and Navy competitions will be similar. The canards are off the side of the intake in the Navy one but not in the F-47 image.
Source: The National Interest
Source: The National Interest
Bhartiya sainik
Member
The poster being heavily edited, the entire rear half of airframe is hidden.
At this time, just for fun, let's assume Bird-of-Prey + Boeing F/A-XX concept = NGAD
Assuming that, we don't know the wing shape- diamond, delta, lamda, etc, optimised for speed or agility & lift/payload.
The canards might enable a Naval version.
It starts with the Donald himself.Challenge for everyone - don't post any CGI/AI/artists impressions of this new aircraft until Boeing actually release either a in factory mockup or actual prototype.
Ha, who am I kidding, this is DT. Carry on.
Guy was like a pitch man for Boeing and I don't recall any sitting US President doing such unveiling in the Oval Office. It's almost like he wants to find any excuse to speak to the media on how great is everything.
USAF is playing along with by naming it, ahem ..F-47
Bhartiya sainik
Member
May be they liked the videogame & movie: Hitman Agent-47It starts with the Donald himself.
Guy was like a pitch man for Boeing and I don't recall any sitting US President doing such unveiling in the Oval Office. It's almost like he wants to find any excuse to speak to the media on how great is everything.
USAF is playing along with by naming it, ahem ..F-47
Masquerader
Member
General David Allvin explains on X the choice of F-47 rather than F-36 as the designation for the winning Boeing NGAD design:It starts with the Donald himself.
Guy was like a pitch man for Boeing and I don't recall any sitting US President doing such unveiling in the Oval Office. It's almost like he wants to find any excuse to speak to the media on how great is everything.
USAF is playing along with by naming it, ahem ..F-47
This reasoning is quite odd because the P-51 Mustang made invaluable contributions to USAAF air superiority in WW2 and no other winning aircraft design has ever been given a design number honoring a US president for support of a military aircraft program.
It's bloody ridiculous. The USA had a fairly simple, clear, & easily understandable system of designating military aircraft, AFVs, etc., I think clearer than anyone else's - & for no good reason I can see it's thrown it away, & started allocating random numbers. It started with F-35, where the X-plane number, for an experimental design, was carried over to an operational designation, contrary to the rules of the system, but it's also happened to different marks within a type. The old A, B, C system has gone, & E now means a radically different variant, with block numbers being used for what would once have been different marks. That seems to have begun with F-5E, carried over to F-18E (should probably have been F-24) for political reasons (honest, it's not a new aeroplane!), & now, with no formal change, it's become the rule. How that will be fitted into F-35A, B & C will be interesting to see.
F-35A/B/C should probably have been F-25, F-26 & probably F-27.
Masquerader
Member
The DoD probably could have assigned the designation FV-24 to the STOVL variant of the F-35, in which case the F-35C would have been F-35B.
GCAP is expecting around 350 fighters to be built and they are on the lookout for new industrial partners to accelerate production. Could be quite a temptation for a number of nations wanting to lessen their dependency on the US for their future air combat needs.
www.airforce-technology.com
GCAP production expected for 350 fighters: how many will the UK get? - Airforce Technology
A breakdown of aircraft for the UK, Italy, and Japan show more fighters than needed for the one-for-one replacement of older platforms.
Bhartiya sainik
Member
The poster model X-jet could be modified version with 2 engines, canards & different wing config yet to be fully revealed.
A public ceremony would probably reveal the production IOC version.
With such heavily edited poster, without the hidden rear half, it is difficult to say if the jet would look similar to Bird-of-Prey with canards or F/A-XX advertised so far, or combination of both.
Following is the approximate scaled comparison of Bird-of-Prey Vs F-22. For payload, fuel, range more than F-22, the actual NGAD fuselage could be roughly double BoP's fuselage.
Following is F/A-XX concept comparison with poster model:
A public ceremony would probably reveal the production IOC version.
With such heavily edited poster, without the hidden rear half, it is difficult to say if the jet would look similar to Bird-of-Prey with canards or F/A-XX advertised so far, or combination of both.
Following is the approximate scaled comparison of Bird-of-Prey Vs F-22. For payload, fuel, range more than F-22, the actual NGAD fuselage could be roughly double BoP's fuselage.
Following is F/A-XX concept comparison with poster model:
Bhartiya sainik
Member
F-22's F119 engines have 156 KN wet thrust giving it wet T/STOW = 1.1
F-35's F135 engine have 191 KN wet thrust giving it wet T/STOW = 0.76 for C & 0.87 for A models.
If NGAD's A-10X engine is assumed 230 KN wet thrust, that's 230/156=47.4% increase over F-22. Let's adjust it to 234 KN or 50% for easy number. That means maintaining the same wet T/STOW of 1.1 the NGAD's STOW can be 50% more than F-22 or 29*1.5=43.5 tons & MTOW of 38*1.5=57 tons.
So volume can be assumed 50% more for easy understanding for now.
Considering same airframe density, a 14% increase in L*B*H each gives 48% increase in volume.
But if height of airframe is kept same then 22% increase in width & length gives 48% more volume.
In terms of F-22 it would look like following bigger F-22, which would look same from top but stretched sideways from front/back. May be this can give some idea about NGAD's size.
F-35's F135 engine have 191 KN wet thrust giving it wet T/STOW = 0.76 for C & 0.87 for A models.
If NGAD's A-10X engine is assumed 230 KN wet thrust, that's 230/156=47.4% increase over F-22. Let's adjust it to 234 KN or 50% for easy number. That means maintaining the same wet T/STOW of 1.1 the NGAD's STOW can be 50% more than F-22 or 29*1.5=43.5 tons & MTOW of 38*1.5=57 tons.
So volume can be assumed 50% more for easy understanding for now.
Considering same airframe density, a 14% increase in L*B*H each gives 48% increase in volume.
But if height of airframe is kept same then 22% increase in width & length gives 48% more volume.
In terms of F-22 it would look like following bigger F-22, which would look same from top but stretched sideways from front/back. May be this can give some idea about NGAD's size.
Bolt from the blue: what we know (and don’t know) about the US’s powerful F-47 fighter | The Strategist
When the F-47 enters service, at a date to be disclosed, it will be a new factor in US air warfare. A decision to proceed with development, deferred since July, was unexpectedly announced on 21 ...
www.aspistrategist.org.au
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Not only is the choice for the USN's 6th Gen interesting but also which company will win the adaptive cycle engine, P&W or GE? Will the winner power both the USAF and USN 6th Gen fighters? What about a future engine for the B-21, will it be a modified XA102 or XA103? Guessing GE is in the lead and will get the larger requirement if not the whole requirement.This article suggests more like 160 KN. Make of it what you will.Bolt from the blue: what we know (and don’t know) about the US’s powerful F-47 fighter | The Strategist
When the F-47 enters service, at a date to be disclosed, it will be a new factor in US air warfare. A decision to proceed with development, deferred since July, was unexpectedly announced on 21 ...
Bhartiya sainik
Member
Bill Sweetman is a reputed veteran journalist, author. If that estimation of 160 KN is being indicated by USAF/Boeing/P&W/GE then it would be shocking & contradict Donal Trump's words "nothing even comes close from speed to maneuverability to payload"This article suggests more like 160 KN. Make of it what you will.Bolt from the blue: what we know (and don’t know) about the US’s powerful F-47 fighter | The Strategist
When the F-47 enters service, at a date to be disclosed, it will be a new factor in US air warfare. A decision to proceed with development, deferred since July, was unexpectedly announced on 21 ...
If they wanna make something better than F-22's speed, agility & payload then it is simple maths how much engine power is needed.
If they wanna derivative to power F-15EX, F-16 Bl-72 then that's not related here.