11 Gurkha Rifles in training

[insas556]

[
I don't think in today's warfare, war cries and blind charging have any place. with rifle kill ranges of hundreds of meters I don't think anybody is going to be hearing any war cries.[/quote]



The Indian sub-continent is a place where the weight of tradition and history, good or bad, is very much there on the ground. The fight between India and Pak rooted quite a bit in History and of prerceived atrocities centuries.
The fight between India and Pak for still some time is not going to be a la NATO or the US forces. Fighting on the LOC and mountains is still very much a blood and guts affair, hand to hand ,man to man.Territory is in dispute which is to be held or occupied.

The Indian Army is centuries old and the Brits laid a solid ground of regimental tradition, which continues in the Indian army today.AS is said, technology is available off the shelf and anyone can acquire it with the right resources. The regimental tradition, fighting spirit and the cohesion of the fighting formation around this tradition, is very important and not available off the shelf. Its this which drives soldiers up a sheer cliff, despite the carnage all around and unimaginable odds.

 

[RajKhalsa]

Look at the Indian Gurkha in the Pic when they are searching that poor mans house (bunch of twigs Stacked up) he's terrified and begging for his life, does he look like a high priority threat to them,(why point an Assault rifle at him) this is why you need well rounded educated troops on the battle field like the British Armed forces. That are aware of the Boundaries they should never cross!!
Loyalty from the Local populations has to be earned not won by pointing Rifles at there faces and intimidating them into acceptance.

LMAO

Bro, that pic is from an exercise in Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School (CIJWS)

:roll

 

[srirangan]

Dun worry about that comment RajKhalsa; some of them have a pledge taken to say something against India each time they post

 

[wsj_iitb]

I wonder if you people are aware that the Gurkha troops serving in Indian army are not Indian nationals. They are derived from general Gurkha populace in Nepal. These brave souls defend India`s territory as highly professional and loyal soldiers. It is no wonder that Nepal`s Army chief has been given the honour so many times as chief guest for the Passing out Parade (POP) of future battlefield commanders graduating from Indian Military Academy(IMA) and also NDA cadets from pune.

 

[srirangan]

Yes, the Gurkha's in the Indian and Royal Armies are not Indians or Britishers, yet they serve their respective armies with dedication and honesty. And both the Indian Military and the British Military treats them with respect and provides them all the rights their national are entitled.

 

[mcgregoruk]

Look at the Indian Gurkha in the Pic when they are searching that poor mans house (bunch of twigs Stacked up) he's terrified and begging for his life, does he look like a high priority threat to them,(why point an Assault rifle at him) this is why you need well rounded educated troops on the battle field like the British Armed forces. That are aware of the Boundaries they should never cross!!
Loyalty from the Local populations has to be earned not won by pointing Rifles at there faces and intimidating them into acceptance.[/quote]

Many years ago, when we were hunting CTs in Malaya, a prisoner who had not yet been searched while the area was being searched, produced a grenade form his shirt. The man who was covering him, like in the picture, shot him. Imagine what would have happened if the pin had been pulled on that grenade.

mcgregoruk ex Gurkha Brigade.

 

[adsH]

Look at the Indian Gurkha in the Pic when they are searching that poor mans house (bunch of twigs Stacked up) he's terrified and begging for his life, does he look like a high priority threat to them,(why point an Assault rifle at him) this is why you need well rounded educated troops on the battle field like the British Armed forces. That are aware of the Boundaries they should never cross!!
Loyalty from the Local populations has to be earned not won by pointing Rifles at there faces and intimidating them into acceptance.

Many years ago, when we were hunting CTs in Malaya, a prisoner who had not yet been searched while the area was being searched, produced a grenade form his shirt. The man who was covering him, like in the picture, shot him. Imagine what would have happened if the pin had been pulled on that grenade.

mcgregoruk ex Gurkha Brigade.[/quote]


no offense intended to you Sir!! but i just had to say what i felt, it was an unreasonable behavior this is how you spark hostility with the locals. you can easily tie hands up place them in the corner(guarded). read them whatever rights they have. isn't the searching the first thing what your meant to have done. Alot of people think i'm writing Anti Indian stuf, but i'm not, i didn't mind any of the other Gurkha pics , infact they were qiuet amazing pics, what really got me going was the miss treatment (if they do that in an exercise then i'm sure it would be done in real life) and Laliths inhumane comments. if Troops like theses patrol the streets of Kashmir, then i'm not amazed that the locals have chosen to retaliate. Do you see my point its not Anti indian is Anti brutality, you need policing tactics. not combat troops with War cries.

 

[gf0012-aust]

mcgregoruk ex Gurkha Brigade.

Welcome to DT, am curious as to what unit you were with and what dates. I've had some dealings with brits out of that era, so we might have some common ground here.

what rank were you at the time?

 

[insas556]

Look at the Indian Gurkha in the Pic when they are searching that poor mans house (bunch of twigs Stacked up) he's terrified and begging for his life, does he look like a high priority threat to them,(why point an Assault rifle at him) this is why you need well rounded educated troops on the battle field like the British Armed forces. That are aware of the Boundaries they should never cross!!
Loyalty from the Local populations has to be earned not won by pointing Rifles at there faces and intimidating them into acceptance.

This one photo seems to have attracted a lot of attention. Its only a demonstration/excercise! The soldier is only covering him. Locals are aware what real mistreatment is and its too simplistic to say that insurgency in Kashmir is linked only to troop behaviour.
Indian troops are one of the most experienced in CI and Hearts and minds campaigns. No doubt aberrations are there. But unlike say the US , the IA would not call in an airstrike on the hut, unlike the Israelis. troops would not evict the guys home, displace the family and blow it up.The Guy is also not bagged, hooded and trussed up with plastic strip binders like the troops in Iraq use.Perhaps it would be more humane to 'plough' the area with a C130 spectre, nothing wins hearts and minds more then, 105mm,40mm and 30mm round thudding around your house.

CI i am sure with your experience, you know is a long long fight with a socio-politico-military-economic efforts together. India has succesfully ended Insurgency in Punjab,Mizoram and talks with the NSCN in nagaland is quite advanced.Even their leadership ,now visiting India has ackowledged the need for a practical solution.Once the NSCN talks permanent peace the other groups in the North east of India too will follow suit, since the NSCN is the Lynchpin of struggle in the area.There has been a cease fire of years with them now.Thes are all after long CI campaigns by the forces.
Other areas with Insurgency too will ultimately be settled.
Kashmir is a peculiar sitiuation, but having said that . despite the best efforts of interested parties, there not a Palestine type intifada in J&K and that means something.

 

[srirangan]

Many years ago, when we were hunting CTs in Malaya, a prisoner who had not yet been searched while the area was being searched, produced a grenade form his shirt. The man who was covering him, like in the picture, shot him. Imagine what would have happened if the pin had been pulled on that grenade.

mcgregoruk ex Gurkha Brigade.

Welcome Sir!

 

[mcgregoruk]

no offense intended to you Sir!! but i just had to say what i felt, it was an unreasonable behavior this is how you spark hostility with the locals. you can easily tie hands up place them in the corner(guarded). read them whatever rights they have. isn't the searching the first thing what your meant to have done. Alot of people think i'm writing Anti Indian stuf, but i'm not, i didn't mind any of the other Gurkha pics , infact they were qiuet amazing pics, what really got me going was the miss treatment (if they do that in an exercise then i'm sure it would be done in real life) and Laliths inhumane comments. if Troops like theses patrol the streets of Kashmir, then i'm not amazed that the locals have chosen to retaliate. Do you see my point its not Anti indian is Anti brutality, you need policing tactics. not combat troops with War cries.

I agree entirely with you regarding inhumane treatment: certain people in Iraq come to mind: however the "hearts and minds" work comes after the search. The number of SEPs (Surrendered Enemy Personnel) we dealt with proves I think that we had the right attitude as they went back into the jungle to get their friends out.

mcgregoruk

 

[mcgregoruk]

mcgregoruk ex Gurkha Brigade.

Welcome to DT, am curious as to what unit you were with and what dates. I've had some dealings with brits out of that era, so we might have some common ground here.

what rank were you at the time?

Left the Indian Army in 47 at partition. Transfered back to British Army. Demobbed. Went to Malaya as a rubber planter but worked with 6GR and Malayan Scouts "ferreting" in my area. Fillingham was C.O. then if I remember correctly. Was also Hon. Inspector of F of M Police.

Were you RAR or with the other Aussie mob that was out there? Nantos Bar was my favourite hang out in K.L.

mcgregoruk

 

[gf0012-aust]

mcgregoruk ex Gurkha Brigade.

Welcome to DT, am curious as to what unit you were with and what dates. I've had some dealings with brits out of that era, so we might have some common ground here.

what rank were you at the time?

Left the Indian Army in 47 at partition. Transfered back to British Army. Demobbed. Went to Malaya as a rubber planter but worked with 6GR and Malayan Scouts "ferreting" in my area. Fillingham was C.O. then if I remember correctly. Was also Hon. Inspector of F of M Police.

Were you RAR or with the other Aussie mob that was out there? Nantos Bar was my favourite hang out in K.L.

mcgregoruk

No mate, I'm not a pongo, I've got water legs. No offence, but you must be nudging the high side of your 60's (assuming you were but a cherub when you enlisted )

I'm not that fond of malaysia, I had some bad personal experiences there with corruption. Cost me a wad of money not to get arrested at one point - which was even more irritating when you consider I was a passing innocent.

KL is one city that I'll never voluntarily visit ever again.

Wasn't Fillingham ex RAF?

 

[mcgregoruk]

No mate, I'm not a pongo, I've got water legs. No offence, but you must be nudging the high side of your 60's (assuming you were but a cherub when you enlisted )

I'm not that fond of malaysia, I had some bad personal experiences there with corruption. Cost me a wad of money not to get arrested at one point - which was even more irritating when you consider I was a passing innocent.

KL is one city that I'll never voluntarily visit ever again.

Wasn't Fillingham ex RAF?

I am verging on 78.
Malaysia is a big collection of countries as you know. I am not particularly fond of Indionesia. In 53 I helped smuggle a Dutch planter, one of the few remaining, out of the country; they were after his blood. We had the whole bit with screeching tyres on the madly driven jeeps etc. along the dockside.

The Fillingham brothers (2) were both Gurkha officers and kept switching regiments in order to stay in the brigade.

I take it you were Aussie Navy then?

mcgregoruk

 

[insas556]

no offense intended to you Sir!! but i just had to say what i felt, it was an unreasonable behavior this is how you spark hostility with the locals. s.

No problem at all.Did not know that you were a gentlemen of 78. I hope i would be as active as you are when i am that

 

[mcgregoruk]

no offense intended to you Sir!! but i just had to say what i felt, it was an unreasonable behavior this is how you spark hostility with the locals. s.

No problem at all.Did not know that you were a gentlemen of 78. I hope i would be as active as you are when i am that

I think you got my post mixed up with another chap's work. All the same in the end though. New American pics are horrendous. How on earth, if one is going to behave like that, does one allow someone to photograph it.

mcgregoruk

 

[mcgregoruk]

I think you got my post mixed up with another chap's work. All the same in the end though. New American pics are horrendous. How on earth, if one is going to behave like that, does one allow someone to photograph it.

mcgregoruk[/quote]

I seem to have killed this thread off. Is it because I am an ex-Rupert?

mcgregoruk

 

[gf0012-aust]

I think you got my post mixed up with another chap's work. All the same in the end though. New American pics are horrendous. How on earth, if one is going to behave like that, does one allow someone to photograph it.

mcgregoruk

I seem to have killed this thread off. Is it because I am an ex-Rupert?

mcgregoruk

Nope, being a rupert doesn't affect responses, most in here would have no idea what it is either.

I'm only intermittently here as I'm currently OS for work. So avail time is limited.

 

[xeron]

mcgregoruk ex Gurkha Brigade.

Welcome to DT, am curious as to what unit you were with and what dates. I've had some dealings with brits out of that era, so we might have some common ground here.

what rank were you at the time?

Left the Indian Army in 47 at partition. Transfered back to British Army. Demobbed. Went to Malaya as a rubber planter but worked with 6GR and Malayan Scouts "ferreting" in my area. Fillingham was C.O. then if I remember correctly. Was also Hon. Inspector of F of M Police.

Were you RAR or with the other Aussie mob that was out there? Nantos Bar was my favourite hang out in K.L.

mcgregoruk

Mr. Mcgregor, You were in the Indian army u say, where were u posted, not that i am from that era but just curious to know.

[Mod edit: Red aRRow: Corrective edit.]

 

[adsH]

no offense intended to you Sir!! but i just had to say what i felt, it was an unreasonable behavior this is how you spark hostility with the locals. s.

No problem at all.Did not know that you were a gentlemen of 78. I hope i would be as active as you are when i am that

I think you got my post mixed up with another chap's work. All the same in the end though. New American pics are horrendous. How on earth, if one is going to behave like that, does one allow someone to photograph it.

mcgregoruk

i do understand that the American troops lack experience and policing experience, some of these kids in the pic, US soldiers are on there first round of duty after there intial training, i wouldn't expect much from them anyway. But i would praise Our British troops for how they perferom there duty's they do give us a reason to be proud of them.
Sir, Are you living in the UK, just curious.