Indonesia: 'green water navy'

ITS Garibaldi will leave Taranto still as ITS Garibaldi, and will be handed to Indonesian Navy, and be rename KRI Gajah Mada. It's schedulle to leave Taranto tonight at Indonesia time of 10PM or Italy 5PM.

As Helicopter carrier it will operate Helicopters from all 3 branches of TNI. Shown in my opinion neccesity due TNI-AL/Navy them selves not having enough Helicopter to equip full air wing for that carrier at this moment. Also this is related to function of Helicopter operations on multiple operations outside Naval ones.

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Photos from Italian media online. She left Italy seems with practically most of it's present sensors and armament mountings intact. Also so far no confirmation yet on what yard where Fincantieri will conduct upgrade project in Indonesia.

Ananda said:

Tiba di RI Bulan Depan, Kapal Induk Garibaldi Bakal Bernama KRI Gajah Mada

TNI Angkatan Laut segera memiliki kapal induk baru bernama KRI Gajah Mada. Kapal itu merupakan ITS Giuseppe Garibaldi yang berangkat dari Italia malam ini.

news.detik.com

ITS Garibaldi will leave Taranto still as ITS Garibaldi, and will be handed to Indonesian Navy, and be rename KRI Gajah Mada. It's schedulle to leave Taranto tonight at Indonesia time of 10PM or Italy 5PM.

As Helicopter carrier it will operate Helicopters from all 3 branches of TNI. Shown in my opinion neccesity due TNI-AL/Navy them selves not having enough Helicopter to equip full air wing for that carrier at this moment. Also this is related to function of Helicopter operations on multiple operations outside Naval ones.

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Photos from Italian media online. She left Italy seems with practically most of it's present sensors and armament mountings intact. Also so far no confirmation yet on what yard where Fincantieri will conduct upgrade project in Indonesia.

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It looks like there are still some repair/maintenance ongoing at the ship. Is it already finished, do they want to continue with it during voyage to Indonesia (which is unlikely), or do they want to abruptly end it, just to make it possible to show off this new toy on 5 October?

Sandhi Yudha said:

Is it already finished, do they want to continue with it during voyage to Indonesia (which is unlikely), or do they want to abruptly end it, just to make it possible to show off this new toy on 5 October?

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The ship will have Stop Over in Jeddah and Colombo. Aside Indonesian Crew, the ship also carry Italian crew from Marina Militare and Fincantieri. So they can theoretically have enough time to do some minor changes. Like I said before, the one thing that not clear yet, is in which yard Fincantieri will conduct that USD 450 mio upgrade that's so far talk has been contracted to them and local partner.

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Italy Flag being lowered down from Garibaldi.

Jakarta has also expressed interest in purchasing Japan’s upgraded Mogami-class frigates. However, a decision on those vessels is expected only after the Asagiri-class destroyer deal is finalized.

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Now Asagiri is know as part of Interim Frigate (as eventough it is call destroyer, but on current standard it is more classified as Frigate), and according to this interim for Mogami. Well from what I heard it is similar as what China offer Type 53H3 as interim for Type 54B Frigate or Type 52D Destroyer.

Interesting no more mention on Oyashio as interim Submarine.

Video from local forum on the progress from both FMP Balaputra Dewa and Philippines LPD Ilocos Norte. FMP being scheduled to participate on 5th of October Naval Sail Pass. It will be interesting to see how PT. PAL will make her ready within 5 weeks.

The question being ask, how to fill up ex Garibaldi Air Wing as TNI-AL don't have enough helicopters for that Light Carrier and same time fill up their Frigates, Corvettes and LPD. TNI Answer is fill up with helicopters from all three branches.



So TNI-AD Bell 412, TNI-AU H225M pilots now also being trained to land and operate from TNI-AL ships.



From fixed heli deck mock up,



To land and operate from LPD.

Photo from Keris FB.

Mock up of Garibaldi deck, being used by TNI-AL Dauphin, TNI-AD Bell 412 and TNI-AU H225M for training. Seems this 3 types going to land on ITS Garibaldi when the carrier reach Indonesia water, before goes to Jakarta Naval Base for handing over ceremony as KRI Gajah Mada.

After that the KRI Gajah Mada will be scheduled to get upgrade program with Fincantieri rumors still the lead contractor. Question remains whether it will be at PAL facility or potential private base yard. My suspicion could be Noahtu Lampung Shipyard (previously Daya Radar Utama). This as the shipyard close to where the carrier going to be based, and Noahtu is already chosen by Fincantieri to be the local yard that will be use for localization project (if they got PPA batch 2 or Light Frigate/Corvette project).


The red circle shown their dry/graving dock facility, and according to company data, it can handle up to 200m vessels. The satellite picture also shown 2 OPV 98 Corvettes that they are finishing at the moment. Shown carrier the size of Garibaldi can fit on the graving dock.

Garibaldi in Egypt Safaga Red Sea naval base. This is seems stopover that not being mentioned before, as TNI-AL talk about stopover in Jeddah Saudi Arabia, and Colombo Sri Lanka. Garibaldi seems still in full Marina Militare configuration.

Video circulate in Indonesia local forum, which got it from Indonesia Defense Attache in Egypt Instagram.

Ananda said:

7.8K views · 329 reactions | Safaga naval base Its Garibaldi = KRI gajah Mada By:Indonesiadefenceattache-ig #info | Markicap

Safaga naval base Its Garibaldi = KRI gajah Mada By:Indonesiadefenceattache-ig #info

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Garibaldi in Egypt Safaga Red Sea naval base. This is seems stopover that not being mentioned before, as TNI-AL talk about stopover in Jeddah Saudi Arabia, and Colombo Sri Lanka. Garibaldi seems still in full Marina Militare configuration.

Video circulate in Indonesia local forum, which got it from Indonesia Defense Attache in Egypt Instagram.

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Even the Breda DARDO 40 mm guns and Sea Sparrow/Aspide launchers are still installed. That's how important 5 Oktober is for some people here, whatever it takes, they have to show off this new toy this year!

Sandhi Yudha said:

That's how important 5 Oktober is for some people here, whatever it takes, they have to show off this new toy this year!

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That's one factor, the other factor is to get that carrier to Indonesia soon and conduct upgrade in Indonesia yard. From what I heard PAL CEO insist his company become lead integrator. However seems it is also will be done by Fincantieri as lead contractor. There's need to shown the upgrade done by Indonesia yard to provide narative tech transfer.

I mean, it's a 40 years old ship and BREDA DARDO and SEA SPARROW are even older designs...
Also, the ASPIDE launcher is not operational and has been out of service for many years, it's just an empty box.
This is because italy switched to sylver VLS from EUROSYS (NG design) with ASTER from EUROSAM in the early 2000s so the Sea Sparrow/Aspide were gradually decommisioned.
The last ships to fire ASPIDE were the De La Penne class Destroyers (many years ago, i think 10 or more...)
Garibaldi and the DLP destroyers have been used as "training ships" (just like the VITTORIO VENETO cruiser in its last 10 years of life).

What Garibaldi (soon will be rename Gajah Mada) going to be use by TNI-AL depends on how far the upgrade will be taken. USD 450 mio upgrade that Fincantieri talk to turn this carrier as drone carrier and hybrid disaster command carrier, on paper will be quite extensive. However it is still in papet.

TNI-AL also still need to learn much more on how to operate effectively light carrier like this. Thus in the sense, it is basically also training carrier for TNI-AL and also Indonesian shipyard on how to operate and maintain a carrier. More importantly commitment to maintain operating costs for a carrier operation even a light one. There are already underused light carrier in Southeast Asia for 3 decades. Time will tell if ex Garibaldi going to have better operational usage then Chackri Naraubet.

Assuming a third of the USD 450 mil is for electrical and mechanical rehabilitation, the rest should be utilised for electronics, sensor and weapon systems refresh.

A possible and likely path are systems already in used by the two PPAs or ITS Trieste such as the SADOC Mk4 SEWACO, communications equipment, Kronos AESA and integrated RESM/ECM from Elettronica S.p.a etc. The unknown is the extent with which TNI-AL wants to go for the weapon systems. Certainly, Oto Melara 76 mm/62 Strales anti-aircraft guns seems feasible, but whether an advanced AD would be fitted (Sylver VLS, Aster) is within that 450 mil budget is unclear.

koxinga said:

but whether an advanced AD would be fitted (Sylver VLS, Aster) is within that 450 mil budget is unclear.

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I don't think it will be achievable on that USD 450 mio budget. Electronic system, sensors and communications I believe will be the main part, as also rejuvenate the hull, flight deck and superstructure. This is base on what fincantieri offer for Command Ship, Drone and Helicopter carrier, and surface base for disaster relieve operation. However I don't expect much upgrade on gun system.

I suspect they will maintain Dardo gun system. While as Aspide replacement, I'm going to be amaze if Fincantieri can change the missile points for VL placement as it will be too much changes, and potentially not meet the budget. I heard rumours on naval shorad, either roketsan naval sungur system (Levent) can be use, or mbda mistral. Shorad system in my opinion is the best they can get as Aspide replacement.

Republikorp and Roketsan JV put 4 missile type; Atmaca, Cakir (both SSM-Cruise missile) and Hisar, Sungur (both SAM). Thus there's already lobby for Sungur. Also Roketsan and Leonardo already have agreement for system integration for each products. Thus who knows, as putting Shorad still in my opinion meet the budget.

Problem with replacing the Aspide is the launchers. They're box launchers, & there's not much choice of SAMs to replace them in the same footprint, apart from very short range such as Mistral. RAM would probably do, but would Indonesia want it?

VLS would need more engineering, but I don't know how much. It depends on the size of the VLS, & what's under the deck there.

Choices of HQ-10 (RAM China equivalent) more likely to happen in my opinion then RAM. Especially if MinDef take China offer of Type 53H3 as interim Frigate, as it is already have HQ-10. Less likely day to day in my opinion, as Asagiri seems gaining more traction as interim frigate then Type 53H3.

However since Garibaldi use and potentially upgrade with more Leonardo system, then Euro NATO standard more likely to happen. Puting Mistral Sadral or Roketsan Levent will have more probability to replace those Aspide boxes. This's base on budget, and less complexity on installation.

Mistral might be an interesting choice if you want to "stay" with MBDA instead of going for an american vendor.
Turkish products i'm not really familiar with, but they might be good enough.
VLS to be excluded, 450 million to upgrade a carrier (40 yrs old) are barely enough for electronics.
Also Garibaldi was not designed with space for VLS cells. So it might actually be impossible to fit them.

Yes most USD 450 mio already been talk by Indonesia Finance Guys to be used for:

1. Integrating Drone and Helicopter operation,
2. Upgrade systems mostly electronics but some weapon system,
3. Command fumctions.

The budget for drone and helicopter being provide seperately (seems AW 149 being choose by the navy) Ini spesifikasi AW149, helikopter incaran Kemhan untuk perkuat TNI AL but mostly for Combat Rescue operation. This shown the carrier mostly will be use as command amphibious and disaster relieve. Thus it will operate within Indonesia waters and not really for naval power projection.

For that I suspect they don't budget big for SD missile, and point defense shorad seems the best they are planning. Especially with most of the upgrade budget going for other electronics, command and flight integration systems.

There's also other rumour here that Marina Militare offer to TNI-AL some of their Aspide Missile stockpiles. The logic is because this carrier will be only maintain by Indonesian Navy up to 2040, when the plan indigenous build LHD come to operation. Thus Aspide stockpiles can still operational for a decade more.

Fincantieri also being talk facing Navantia-TAIS on offering design for LHD. The design must be set before 2030 if one can still be hope to be operational before 2040.

I am doubtful that we still have ASPIDE in stock since the remaining ones are either expired, were sold or have been sent to Ukraine.
Actually, I seriously doubt we have any left.