Russia - General Discussion.

Redshift

Active Member
Should Russia start threatening Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania? And every satellite in space in general?
We seem quite happy with Zelenski doing just that.

Kyiv will otherwise intervene itself to halt the transmissions.
Belarus is one of the key suppliers for the Russian army. He is saying that Putin should attack/threaten those supplying Ukraine, right?
Or against one of the NATO countries. Thank you for your heads up, but that would be only fair, right?
Moscow is planning a "massive strike" against Ukraine. He is bragging about his "massive strike", that would be only fair, right?

“But when I started to be threatened, I had to answer,” Lukashenko said. Or not, and just wait for us to tell you when you have been threatened.
When did zelensky threaten Poland
Should Russia start threatening Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania? And every satellite in space in general?
We seem quite happy with Zelenski doing just that.

Kyiv will otherwise intervene itself to halt the transmissions.
Belarus is one of the key suppliers for the Russian army. He is saying that Putin should attack/threaten those supplying Ukraine, right?
Or against one of the NATO countries. Thank you for your heads up, but that would be only fair, right?
Moscow is planning a "massive strike" against Ukraine. He is bragging about his "massive strike", that would be only fair, right?

“But when I started to be threatened, I had to answer,” Lukashenko said. Or not, and just wait for us to tell you when you have been threatened.
Yes but WHAT ABOUT ........
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Should Russia start threatening Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania? And every satellite in space in general?
We seem quite happy with Zelenski doing just that.

Kyiv will otherwise intervene itself to halt the transmissions.
Belarus is one of the key suppliers for the Russian army. He is saying that Putin should attack/threaten those supplying Ukraine, right?
Or against one of the NATO countries. Thank you for your heads up, but that would be only fair, right?
Moscow is planning a "massive strike" against Ukraine. He is bragging about his "massive strike", that would be only fair, right?

“But when I started to be threatened, I had to answer,” Lukashenko said. Or not, and just wait for us to tell you when you have been threatened.
Belarus is far more involved in this war than any NATO country. On the first day of the war, Russian troops invaded from Belarus. Russian aircraft flying from Belarusian air force bases bombed Ukraine, & Russia fired missiles at Ukraine from Belarus. Until they withdrew, Russian troops in parts of Ukraine neighbouring Belarus were supplied & reinforced through Belarus.

That puts Belarus in a different category from any of Ukraine's supporters. It was complicit in the war even before the Russian invasion.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
I am happy to see that we bring History forward.

Putin and Zelenski are "the same" because both threaten foreign countries, as I posted; I also posted a difference. Also, no one posted anything about our disagreement with that policy.
Meaning, are we excusing Ukraine threatening countries because it is Ukraine or we simply choose not to see that?
 

Redshift

Active Member
I am happy to see that we bring History forward.

Putin and Zelenski are "the same" because both threaten foreign countries, as I posted; I also posted a difference. Also, no one posted anything about our disagreement with that policy.
Meaning, are we excusing Ukraine threatening countries because it is Ukraine or we simply choose not to see that?
Neither, you are talking your usual load of codswallop and drawing entirely false comparisons .... And her don't forget WHAT ABOUT ....
 

Redshift

Active Member
I am happy to see that we bring History forward.

Putin and Zelenski are "the same" because both threaten foreign countries, as I posted; I also posted a difference. Also, no one posted anything about our disagreement with that policy.
Meaning, are we excusing Ukraine threatening countries because it is Ukraine or we simply choose not to see that?
Also I don't think that you understand the meaning of "we" in the context of the above sentence.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
Talking about threats...

Or, getting your defences ready.
"This move was also meant to showcase that space assets in the service of Ukraine cannot be considered safe."

Ships carrying Russian oil are "assets", right?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Putin and Zelenski are "the same" because both threaten foreign countries, as I posted; I also posted a difference. Also, no one posted anything about our disagreement with that policy.
Meaning, are we excusing Ukraine threatening countries because it is Ukraine or we simply choose not to see that?
"The same" when Zelensky threatens the country that allowed Russia to invade Ukraine from its territory, use its airbases to bomb Ukraine from, to fire ballistic missiles from its territory at Ukraine, to reinforce & supply its troops in Ukraine through its territory . . . .

When did any of the countries Putin has threatened do any of that?

Different categories. Very obviously.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
"The same" when Zelensky threatens the country that allowed Russia to invade Ukraine from its territory, use its airbases to bomb Ukraine from, to fire ballistic missiles from its territory at Ukraine, to reinforce & supply its troops in Ukraine through its territory . . . .

When did any of the countries Putin has threatened do any of that?

Different categories. Very obviously.
May I point out that it is not threatening Belarus for what it did in the past?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Belarus is still allowing Russia to fly drones & fire missiles over its territory, & Russia is reported to operate comms relay stations in Belarus for drones attacking Ukraine. That's happening now - & is what Zelensky objected to.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
Belarus is still allowing Russia to fly drones & fire missiles over its territory, & Russia is reported to operate comms relay stations in Belarus for drones attacking Ukraine. That's happening now - & is what Zelensky objected to.
Exactly my point.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Another article on Russia's economics problems. Little room for improvement any time soon if the war continues and depending on how the war ends about the same. Even if sanctions end, only China would consider investments in Russia IMO for the immediate future. There will little money available for conversion from a wartime to civilian economy, finding work for veterans, and looking after thousands of injured. Probably tough times for Euro yacht builders. Putin will be squeezing his oligarchs for cash!

Russia’s economy is ‘sputtering,’ and Putin’s wartime spending model has pushed the country to an ‘economic, political, and military abyss’
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
This Foreign Affairs article discusses the post-Putin succession. Clearly there is a geriatric issue and it will only get worse. The longer he is around, the transition will be become more problematic. For the anti-Russia crowd, will this be a good or bad thing?

After Putin | Foreign Affairs
From which i understand, Russia does not have a vice-president, so if suddenly the president needs to be replaced, would it be logic that the prime-minister will take it over, until the next elections?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
This Foreign Affairs article discusses the post-Putin succession. Clearly there is a geriatric issue and it will only get worse. The longer he is around, the transition will be become more problematic. For the anti-Russia crowd, will this be a good or bad thing?

After Putin | Foreign Affairs
It's hard to be sure. I suspect that it wouldn't change much. Someone not too different would step up, and stay the present course with some changes.

From which i understand, Russia does not have a vice-president, so if suddenly the president needs to be replaced, would it be logic that the prime-minister will take it over, until the next elections?
It's Prime Minster, then Chairman of the Federation Council, then Speaker of the State Duma.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I am curious how such a hypothetical confrontation could look like. In an all-out war with NATO I don't see how Russia would be able to put up a real fight. Then again, I was sure Ukraine would fold in a week. And here we are.
I'm going to answer that here since it seems more appropriate. I think that a confrontation like this would likely escalate from something smaller, perhaps an attempt to shut down Russian sea traffic through the Baltic or blockade Kaliningrad, or start downing Russia inbounds over western Ukraine, possibly under the theory that they're about to cross into Polish or Romanian airspace. It would be something of that sort that Russia responds to forcefully, and the situation escalates from there. It would require in principle some EU actors to feel confident enough in their military capabilities to stand up to Russia which I think is still some time away. So the start point wouldn't be a EU/NATO buildup for the war, but some lesser situation escalating.

As to whether Russia would be able to put up a real fight, it really depends. Again I don't think we're talking about a large EU or NATO ground force. We're probably talking about a war in the air and on the sea. The latter Russia would lose and badly, almost certainly. But the former isn't quite so obvious. Russia's IADS is very large, and has learned some lessons from the current war. Russia also continues to produce modern SAMs in large quantities. So if Russia's jets mostly stay well back and trade potshots, like they do over Ukraine then EU/NATO legacy jets would have a hard time penetrating Russia's IADS. Europe does have a small quantity of F-35s but considering geography and where they operate out of, and op-tempo, they couldn't be the sole combat jet that gets used. Throw in the possible use of air-air tactical nukes, and Russia's robust strike arsenal being able to reach many of the bases EU/NATO would be relying on (allowing them to disrupt operations there and possibly even hit jets on the ground), and the air war is not so simple to predict the outcome of.

Consider what Iran was able to do to US military facilities across the Middle East and what impact this has had on US operations against Iran. Certainly I think Russia would put up a real fight. I do think it's a fight that would very likely head towards tactical nuclear weapon use quite rapidly. In theory EU/NATO can respond in kind, in practice the arsenals are not comparable unless the US gets involved. In a theoretical medium term where the fighting somehow doesn't turn nuclear, Russia would almost certainly lose. But in a significantly shorter engagement Russia could theoretically do enough damage to EU/NATO bases and facilities to disrupt air operations, and largely hold their own in the sky, losing some SAMs and planes but not losing their actual IADS.

It the EU/NATO forces do want to send large ground forces in that would change the calculus considerably. They could almost certainly overrun Kaliningrad, and hope that doesn't trigger a nuclear response. It might not. But then what? Are they also at war with Belarus? If no, it makes for some awkward geography. If yes, the fight would be in Belarus. Russia would have a fairly easy time rushing troops to Belarus, and would have the Belorussian military as allies. There already are Russian nukes in Belarus and the IADS is already integrated. And while Belorussians don't necessarily like Lukashenko, their reaction to a foreign military force might not be friendly, especially if the invasion comes with heavy fighting and large scale destruction. It's an open question as to just how well EU/NATO forces are prepared for the modern drone-infested battlefield, but I suspect they're worse prepared then Russia is. Russia's military lives there. It's not a fight that would be easy or have a simple obviously predictable short term outcome for either side in my opinion. Again in the medium term, if the war somehow doesn't go nuclear and lasts that long, it would eventually go badly for Russia. How badly and how quickly is an open question.
 
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