11 cells with SeaRam doesn’t seem enough these days, especially against a swarm. 1 on each side, like the Hunter would be better.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
- Start date
Could always go for the mk49 launcher rather than the SeaRAM. Upgrades to 21 rather than the 11.
It comes with the loss of the independent radar though.
In regards to RAM launchers on the Hunter, these units need a clear missile exhaust vent pathway. If they sit where the Phalanx units are intended, then this might be difficult as they will vent straight into the main funnel and intake plenums.
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Swarms of drones or missiles will no doubt come from multiple angles/sides, having 2 independent SeaRam with 11 cells would be better than 1x21 cell mk49 imo. Think we might see even smaller SeaRam systems in the future with ships having multiple launchers, possibly connected to 1 radar dome.
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iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Has any consideration been given to having both Phalanx and SeaRAM/RAM fitted at the same time. In a Hail Mary situation with a swarm attack of drones you would want multiple redundancies. Look at the Italian ships. While you're reloading one you're firing the other. ESSM/RAM missiles are expensive so gun options must be in the mix. Also directed energy weapons. It's better to be an echinda than a hairless cat.
I feel navy will watch what army does with regards to defending against the small drove type threat.
Could be that interceptor drones become an additional hard kill layer employed across the fleet.
RAN ships do sail close to coastlines
Cheers S
Agree
I'm thinking guns align with the bulk of the land defence strategy, with systems such as the EOS slinger and Skyranger. A ship's own 127mm and smaller remote weapons stations match this approach.
High energy microwave systems like the Leonidas Epirus seem to be capable mass defence systems that are getting more attention. These use ASEA radar panels, so a Mogami, Hunter (or ANZAC for that matter) should be able to use their own radars as an equivalent. Still short ranged, 5km is a good outcome.
While drones can be hardened (and probably will over time) this adds a lot to the cost, so it limits the enemy's ability to mass produce.
Drones seem best to allow them to get close and use low cost short ranged systems to destroy.
The dual or quad Mistral 3 comes to mind.
Quick question re the 50 cal employed by Navy.
What are the advantages / disadvantages re hand operated versus remote control.
Id speculate a remote control gun maybe more accurate but no doubt more expensive and labour intensive.
I’d appreciate some feedback.
Cheers S
What are the advantages / disadvantages re hand operated versus remote control.
Id speculate a remote control gun maybe more accurate but no doubt more expensive and labour intensive.
I’d appreciate some feedback.
Cheers S
50 cals; reaction time and target prioritisation. They are operated from the Ops Room by the team on watch and can take control information from the ship’s sensors, so they don’t require some poor sod on the upper deck on a headset - two actually, as there is normally a gunner an a supervisor. They are available all the time whereas for the manual operated weapon you first need to tip the poor sods out of their bunks. They are more expensive to acquire of course. They are also only fitted to the Anzacs SFAIK; other MFUs have 25mm in their Typhoon mounts.
Given we only have 36/48 mk41 cells and the risk of drone swarms why wouldn’t the RAN use the MK49 Sea Ram with 21 cells? I still see a role for both Sea Ram and Phalanx. Why not keep both?
Thanks Spoz
Certainly see some merit of one over the other.
I believe there’s a bit to clean and maintain on a RCWS.
That said is one superior to the other for accuracy.
Cheers S
devo99
Well-Known Member
THE WHAT??
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
That's what I asked. Layer the defences.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Mogami crews wear wrist based trackers so their movements in the ship are known at all times. Useful in an emergency during combat.
Not sure if similar is being used in the RAN yet; but it has certainly been talked about as ships get bigger and the complement gets leaner. Whereas in the old days, unless you were trying not to be found, somebody would always know where you were now that is not always so. And, on the back end at night, was a life buoy sentry to watch for man overboards. Not something that a small ships company can support, so better ways using technology are needed.
Martlet appears to be going ok against drones in the middle east and can be fired from both ground units and by helicopters. It is supposed to cost somewhere in the vicinity of around $100k AUD per round, much more cost effective, especially when you consider the cost of the damage a drone could inflict as opposed to the cost of the drone itself.
Can Tamil intercept manoeuvring targets? It is cheaper again.
Mistral 3 appears to be about 7-8 times that cost, so probably not ideal to be throwing at cheap drones.
Not saying to buy Martlet, but something along those lines would appear to be ideal, especially if the same launcher can fire a more capable missile if required....
Lasers could be an option, but do they kill a larger drone quick enough? Does a laser give a hard kill or just kill the guidance system?
Can Tamil intercept manoeuvring targets? It is cheaper again.
Mistral 3 appears to be about 7-8 times that cost, so probably not ideal to be throwing at cheap drones.
Not saying to buy Martlet, but something along those lines would appear to be ideal, especially if the same launcher can fire a more capable missile if required....
Lasers could be an option, but do they kill a larger drone quick enough? Does a laser give a hard kill or just kill the guidance system?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Something like the APKWS II also be an option, especially since Australia has had 70 mm Hydra rockets in service in the past. Depending on Australian munitions production, it also might be one that could be fairly easily produced within Australia as well. Between the potential for domestic assembly or production and an estimated all-round up cost of USD$40k, it would certainly seem worth looking into.
We had APKWS in service while awaiting Hellfire integration. the updated version is not just interesting for Apache and Romeo, but also it has been integrated with various gun RWS, as well as stand alone vehicle and static mounted configurations which opens many possibilities.
Basically anything with an RWS, a tray or free deck space, and either already has (or can be fitted with) a compatable EOS, could integrate APKWS II.