Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

Sender

Active Member
Save the Merlins? The RCN (RCAF - the RCN does not currently have its own air arm) does not currently fly Merlins. The RCAF has a small fleet of EH-101s ("Cormorant" in RCAF lingo), that are used exclusively for SAR, but there are zero Merlins in CAF service.
 
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There could be 'mutual interest' in Canada building its submarines, says German armament secretary

It looks like Germany is trying hard and playing the economic benefits card, as they should. I'd be worried of delays and high costs personally. Seems like the Koreans have a well oiled machine at the moment.
A fairly desperate gamble from what it looks like, Canada would add another 10 years at minimum to the delivery schedule, if not another 15-20 realistically. There is no interest to build the submarines domestically and the program has reflected that for quite sometime, confusing statement.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
A fairly desperate gamble from what it looks like, Canada would add another 10 years at minimum to the delivery schedule, if not another 15-20 realistically. There is no interest to build the submarines domestically and the program has reflected that for quite sometime, confusing statement.
Given the deficit forecast and Trump's tariff BS negative effects, slowing the delivery may be looking more attractive to Carney. Still think the SKorean bid will proceed on schedule.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Some more on the latest efforts by Germany to convince Canada to select the 212CD. The larger KSS III, its VLS, and faster delivery are significant advantages for SKorea IMHO. NATO interoperability with other ThysesenKrupp users is one advantage I suppose but not enough...just my two cents.
 

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
Some more on the latest efforts by Germany to convince Canada to select the 212CD. The larger KSS III, its VLS, and faster delivery are significant advantages for SKorea IMHO. NATO interoperability with other ThysesenKrupp users is one advantage I suppose but not enough...just my two cents.
Did you neglect to add a link ?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
This article about the challenges Russia faces operating Kilo class subs for Mediterean patrol out of the Baltic is something the RCN should note. Patrolling the high Arctic from Halifax would be similar.

Russia’s Submarine Problem Is Much Worse Than Many Imagine - Naval News
Not sure about that. One problem the Russian navy has getting to the Med from the Baltic is that the only way to get there is via the Danish straits - which are very narrow & shallow, & NATO territorial waters. They're required to pass through on the surface, using a specific route, & give prior notification. Canadian subs out of Halifax would have no such restrictions. They'd be in the open ocean as soon as they're out of the harbour.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Not sure about that. One problem the Russian navy has getting to the Med from the Baltic is that the only way to get there is via the Danish straits - which are very narrow & shallow, & NATO territorial waters. They're required to pass through on the surface, using a specific route, & give prior notification. Canadian subs out of Halifax would have no such restrictions. They'd be in the open ocean as soon as they're out of the harbour.
I was thinking more about the excessive transit times from both Vancouver and Halifax to the Arctic albeit there are no depth restrictions and the territorial waters are shared by allies.....the Danish one at least.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Another reason to hook up with the Koreans - potential nuclear power for the KSS 111:

Perhaps a distant future option but the US would have to approve any nuclear tech transfer if a SKorea design that has US content. is offered to Canada. Given the glacial pace of nuke sub production by the US and UK along with support/maintenance issues it is a shame that the AUKUS program couldn't add in SKorea and Japan thus bringing in their considerable ship building capability. Sadly a bridge too far.
 

OldTex

Well-Known Member
The reporting on the seemingly left field decision by the IOTUS to allow korean access to US nuclear power technology has suggested a viable course for the RCN (and perhaps RAN) wrt acquiring and operating SSNs.
At first glance it highlights that potentially, this could be through an adaption of the KSS-III design. While the KSS-III displaces 4,000t submerged it could be able to be redesigned for nuclear propulsion (using the existing US S9G PWR). It is a possibility as France’s Rubis-class SSNs displaced just 2,600t submerged, and were far shorter at 74m in length compared to the Batch 2 KSS’ 89m form.
While these potential SSNs would not be available for the next 15+ years or more it would be an advantage to the RCN to select and use the KSS-III batch 2 SSKs to maintain the silent service until they can procure the new KSS-III batch 3 SSNs. That would allow the time for the training of the operators and maintainers of nuclear powered submarines.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The reporting on the seemingly left field decision by the IOTUS to allow korean access to US nuclear power technology has suggested a viable course for the RCN (and perhaps RAN) wrt acquiring and operating SSNs.
At first glance it highlights that potentially, this could be through an adaption of the KSS-III design. While the KSS-III displaces 4,000t submerged it could be able to be redesigned for nuclear propulsion (using the existing US S9G PWR). It is a possibility as France’s Rubis-class SSNs displaced just 2,600t submerged, and were far shorter at 74m in length compared to the Batch 2 KSS’ 89m form.
While these potential SSNs would not be available for the next 15+ years or more it would be an advantage to the RCN to select and use the KSS-III batch 2 SSKs to maintain the silent service until they can procure the new KSS-III batch 3 SSNs. That would allow the time for the training of the operators and maintainers of nuclear powered submarines.
The possibility of a future SSN derived from a KSS-III along with Canadian nuclear supply chain involvement makes the KSS-III selection even better...just my two cents.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
The possibility of a future SSN derived from a KSS-III along with Canadian nuclear supply chain involvement makes the KSS-III selection even better...just my two cents.
TBH I tend to think a SSN version of the KSS-III is not really possible. Externally a SSN and a SS, SG or SSK might be identical, but the internal are going to have to be very different since the mass of different components is quite different, therefore requiring a different layout to disperse the displacement. With the involvement of a sub reactor, there are only a handful of concerns that have experience with such design work.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
TBH I tend to think a SSN version of the KSS-III is not really possible. Externally a SSN and a SS, SG or SSK might be identical, but the internal are going to have to be very different since the mass of different components is quite different, therefore requiring a different layout to disperse the displacement. With the involvement of a sub reactor, there are only a handful of concerns that have experience with such design work.
Certainly a heavily modified KSS-III would be required at the very least but more likely a KSS-IV(N).
 

BSKS

Member
Article below suggests the main input from the US for an ROK SSN will be sourcing the fuel rather than reactor or propulsion technology.


"Ahn noted that South Korea already possesses capabilities to build nuclear-powered submarines, saying the country will be able to complete such a push on the back of U.S. cooperation on securing fuel".
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Article below suggests the main input from the US for an ROK SSN will be sourcing the fuel rather than reactor or propulsion technology.


"Ahn noted that South Korea already possesses capabilities to build nuclear-powered submarines, saying the country will be able to complete such a push on the back of U.S. cooperation on securing fuel".
That might well be what the ROKN CNO believes, but I tend to suspect it would take quite a bit longer as well as requiring more outside help.

One needs to remember that S. Korea first built a sub in the early 90's, and the KSS-III which has subs under construction is the first domestic S. Korean conventional sub design. As we have seen with Spain's S-80 design, it is easy to screw up a design even for experienced yards.

When one then factors in the need to design an adequate SSN reactor and then fit that into a sub design... Unless S. Korea has been quietly working on a SSN reactor & design for years, then there is most likely years of work before a domestic S. Korean SSN would launch.

Now the US and UK naval construction might not be the fastest, both nations have decades of experience designing and building SSN's, including the reactors. If one looks at when development work began on RN or USN SSN's, it normally takes several years to a decade between design work being initiated and the start of construction. I would expect that S. Korea will also require similar times or even greater due to a lack of prior experience with fitting and integrating a reactor.
 
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