Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[Aussie Digger]

Ok thanks seems strange though, most other armed forces are upgrading there standard infantry weapons

And indeed this is what is happening to the Steyr. It's working parts are being "sorted" and it's safety catch is apparently being rectified (2 of the biggest issues with the weapon). It's ability to mount a variety of sighting systems, and "additional" weapons (40mm GLA, 12 guage shotgun etc) is being improved as well.

If they get it right, it'll be a very effective weapon indeed. It wasn't called "the gun that doesn't miss" by the Somalian's for nothing...

As to the "cook off" issue. I can say that in 6 years use, I never experience this. After my unit became "recon" we all did quite a bit of dismounted recon work (as recon scouts). I recall doing live fire "break contact" drills where we laid down enormous amounts of fire after being "contacted" by enemey formations.

Going through "double frontline" in a matter of minutes was a regular occurence. (For those who don't know, that's 360 rounds through an F-88A1 in minutes). I recall the weapons being awfully hot afterwards, but never had or saw a "cook off" from any F-88.

I'm not saying it never happens, but the weapon doesn't have a "reputation" for it in my experience.

As to the F-88 v M4 issue. The fact that the M4 is "gucci" wouldn't have any bearing on it being adopted by the specwarries would it? How many "water ops" could they have conducted in Afghanistan afterall???

Cheers.

 

[oskarm]

A4? Do you have more info about it? At Steyr's side there are only A3 versions http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=657

 

[Aussie Digger]

A4? Do you have more info about it? At Steyr's side there are only A3 versions http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=657

I do apologise, the "enhanced" F-88 will also be of an "A3" standard. A brochure on this weapon can be viewed at this page here:

http://www.adi-limited.com/default.asp?page=148

 

[rickshaw]

Ahh this is because of the hydralocking but the special forces do use the steyr on occasions

The main reason why the "special forces" don't use the Steyr is because of all the gadgets you can't hang off it.

 

[Aussie Digger]

The main reason why the "special forces" don't use the Steyr is because of all the gadgets you can't hang off it.

Check out that ADI A3 variant. Has all the "Piccatinny" rails you could ever want...

 

[rickshaw]

Check out that ADI A3 variant. Has all the "Piccatinny" rails you could ever want...

Na, the AICW is what I want for next Chrissie.

"Special Forces" think they need to hang so much crap off a weapon that you have to wonder what the thing is there for. If they wanted a Christmas Tree they could have bought one at K-Mart.

 

[Mick73]

The problems I had with the F-88 was the safty catch. When I slung it to work hands free it would often go to action just by knocking it. I never had a UD with it in the seven years I used it and it was rather good, the F-88C was my favourite, it was a good piece of kit.
The other thing was the gas plug. Bloody hot when you had to (but not often) change the settings without gloves, ya bush hat or that silly little tool.
When using it near salt water was often a pain with any bare metal rusting up quickly, however even with that I never had many problems with it.
Most of the feed jams cam about from using the cheap ball ammo or the blanks. When we got the good stuff, ie. it was in the quick loader clips, it never seems to jam.
With the trigger guard issue all it would need is a little bar at the bottom near the base of the trigger and loose the one shot pull down "dic head button"
The new mods on the A3 look good and I don't think it would be worth the time as yet to go shopping for a new rifle system.
Overall weapons safty needs to be addressed before writing off a weapon. A lot of the times I thought we needed to carry our weapon more around barracks with blank ammo. Get us use to think about weapon safty and weapon handling more before going on Ex or to the range.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Na, the AICW is what I want for next Chrissie.

"Special Forces" think they need to hang so much crap off a weapon that you have to wonder what the thing is there for. If they wanted a Christmas Tree they could have bought one at K-Mart.

I'd be happy with the SCAR. Even the M4 isn't as "modular" as that. 5.56mm or 7.62mm in the same rifle, with only a few minor parts swaps the difference...

 

[Chino]

Is the Australian-mafe version more problematic or are these problems found also on the Austrian-made weapons?

Our neighbours the Malaysians are replacing their locally-made Steyrs with imported M4's.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Is the Australian-mafe version more problematic or are these problems found also on the Austrian-made weapons?

Our neighbours the Malaysians are replacing their locally-made Steyrs with imported M4's.

The Austeyr problems are directly related to the fact that ADI - against some strong reccommendations, made changes to the trigger mechanisms when developing the multi-calibre variants.

 

[old faithful]

And indeed this is what is happening to the Steyr. It's working parts are being "sorted" and it's safety catch is apparently being rectified (2 of the biggest issues with the weapon). It's ability to mount a variety of sighting systems, and "additional" weapons (40mm GLA, 12 guage shotgun etc) is being improved as well.

If they get it right, it'll be a very effective weapon indeed. It wasn't called "the gun that doesn't miss" by the Somalian's for nothing...

As to the "cook off" issue. I can say that in 6 years use, I never experience this. After my unit became "recon" we all did quite a bit of dismounted recon work (as recon scouts). I recall doing live fire "break contact" drills where we laid down enormous amounts of fire after being "contacted" by enemey formations.

Going through "double frontline" in a matter of minutes was a regular occurence. (For those who don't know, that's 360 rounds through an F-88A1 in minutes). I recall the weapons being awfully hot afterwards, but never had or saw a "cook off" from any F-88.

I'm not saying it never happens, but the weapon doesn't have a "reputation" for it in my experience.

As to the F-88 v M4 issue. The fact that the M4 is "gucci" wouldn't have any bearing on it being adopted by the specwarries would it? How many "water ops" could they have conducted in Afghanistan afterall???

Cheers.

maybe the cook off prob has been addressed,but i know that during a live fire ambush,where only 90 rounds were fired by each man(pl ambush)fully auto,5 UDs happend during the quiet time. The rounds had not been struck by a firing pin. This was shortly after the introduction of the F88. I have never had it happen to me, but was always aware and suspisious of it. And yes, ive put a lot of rounds down range. the biggest problem with the M4 is the barrel length. Haveing a shorter barrel than the styer and using the ss109 round,it lacks hitting power over 200m. this is not something i made up, it came from a Spec warrie in Afghanstan. He was frustrated that he was taking accurate fire from AK,s and his returning fire was ineffective. he wished he had an SLR at the time. Anyway,weve got the F88,future upgrades sound promissing,and it is a huge improvement over what we had.

 

[ThePuss]

With the trigger guard issue all it would need is a little bar at the bottom near the base of the trigger and loose the one shot pull down "dic head button"
The new mods on the A3 look good and I don't think it would be worth the time as yet to go shopping for a new rifle system.
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I agree the "dickhead button" is a big pain in the arse, However we in the navy are not trained or "allowed" to fire the Steyr in auto (Bosun mates and Clearance divers excepted). Single shot only for us navy boys .
One thing I do like about the Steyr is that it is a true ambidextrous weapon so we "Left Paws" dont get a nice hot shower of brass every time we shot the weapon.

 

[ThePuss]

The last post should of read "South Paw" not "left Paw" my bad its late

In addition, I was sad to see the SLR finaly retired from RAN service around a year ago when they finally made a Styre that could fire a "Dildo" (The offical name for the Dildo is the "line passing projectile" mind you I have never heard it call that

 

[Wooki]

maybe the cook off prob has been addressed,but i know that during a live fire ambush,where only 90 rounds were fired by each man(pl ambush)fully auto,5 UDs happend during the quiet time. The rounds had not been struck by a firing pin. This was shortly after the introduction of the F88. I have never had it happen to me, but was always aware and suspisious of it. And yes, ive put a lot of rounds down range. the biggest problem with the M4 is the barrel length. Haveing a shorter barrel than the styer and using the ss109 round,it lacks hitting power over 200m. this is not something i made up, it came from a Spec warrie in Afghanstan. He was frustrated that he was taking accurate fire from AK,s and his returning fire was ineffective. he wished he had an SLR at the time. Anyway,weve got the F88,future upgrades sound promissing,and it is a huge improvement over what we had.

You know, I heard a similar story from an Aussie Korean vet... he was mightly pissed off watching his SMG rounds impact against Norks running away from him and doing nothing but raising dust off their jackets. Yelled for an SLR and finished the job. Guess they didn't run fast enough.

cheers

w

 

[Tasman]

You know, I heard a similar story from an Aussie Korean vet... he was mightly pissed off watching his SMG rounds impact against Norks running away from him and doing nothing but raising dust off their jackets. Yelled for an SLR and finished the job. Guess they didn't run fast enough.

cheers

w

Good story but to my knowledge Oz troops were not issued with the SLR until after the Korean War. Probably a .303 SMLE. Same point though!

Cheers

 

[Wooki]

Good story but to my knowledge Oz troops were not issued with the SLR until after the Korean War. Probably a .303 SMLE. Same point though!

Cheers

True, but I wasn't going to argue with the old guy... Like you say, Just because he may have got his weapons mixed up, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

cheers

w

 

[Simon9]

I agree the "dickhead button" is a big pain in the arse, However we in the navy are not trained or "allowed" to fire the Steyr in auto (Bosun mates and Clearance divers excepted). Single shot only for us navy boys .

It's a pretty rare treat for the infantry to be allowed to fire full auto too - but don't worry, you're not missing much. The few times I've done it it's been a bitch to control - though nowhere near as bad as trying to fire the Minimi from a standing position.

 

[Tasman]

It's a pretty rare treat for the infantry to be allowed to fire full auto too - but don't worry, you're not missing much. The few times I've done it it's been a bitch to control - though nowhere near as bad as trying to fire the Minimi from a standing position.

For the same reason the SLR was issued to Oz troops with the full auto option not included. You can imagine the problems of full auto with a 7.62mm rifle!

The heavy barrel SLR was issued with full auto capability and we (in the old CMF) used it to simulate a MG during exercises when we needed to fire blanks rapidly. The blanks we used in the SLRs, not fitted with a barrel attachment, had to be reloaded each time by working the action manually. Mind you that was better than the SMG where we had to say 'bang' (no blanks supplied)! I think the modern army reserve boys (and girls) have much more fun.

 

[Waylander]

For sure light brigades have advantages when it comes to deployment and maintenace costs.
But if a light brigade has to go head on against a heavy one it will be crushed to pieces.

The Heavy brigade can take much more heavy enemy fire before being stopped by it and its tracked vehicles make it more maneuverable in the terrain.

Not to talk of the heavy artillery support consisting of 155mm SPHs and MLRS which are going to whin every counterfire battle against the light guns and mortars of a light brigade.

Light tank hunters can also operate well in defensive operations and ambushes but there is a certain need for counterattacks in every mobile defense operation and there again they are not as capable as heavy MBTs.

 

[Wooki]

...For the same reason the SLR was issued to Oz troops with the full auto option not included. You can imagine the problems of full auto with a 7.62mm rifle!...

Phhffffft..... Are you seriously trying to tell me you (or any other digger) didn't know how to convert an SLR to full auto?

It was full auto when you wnated it to be.

cheers

w