Get your war on' down in the Horn

M

merocaine

New Member
Looks like things are hotting up down in the horn of Africa.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1977316,00.html

and a bit of back story

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/eritrea.htm

Personally I think this looks like those arch Imperialists the Etiopians have decided they really do want that coastline after all. They tried it on the Eritrians and got fought to a stand still, now there going through the back door with this somali action. They want a weak totally dependent Somali goverment that wont ask them to leave. But the Eritrians arent hanging around either this could run and run......

Before anyone says the Somali goverment should be supported just remember that they control one town....on the border....backed by 20000 etiopian troops...and nobody in Somalia seems to want them back.

Lets see how long before the word terrorist is mentioned (not including here)!
 
B

Big-E

Banned Member
merocaine said:
Ok heres an update, I think the guardian is the only western paper which is bothering to try and cover this war.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1977937,00.html

I wonder which side Sudans sympathies lie.
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Sudan has more trouble than they can handle with Darfur and Chad. This whole region is getting ready to explode. I'm suprised how little press comes from this region to the US. We hardly ever hear about it. Ever since the "Black-Hawk-Down" our response to Somalia is "Somali who?"
 
M

merocaine

New Member
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  • #4
Sudan has more trouble than they can handle with Darfur and Chad. This whole region is getting ready to explode. I'm suprised how little press comes from this region to the US. We hardly ever hear about it. Ever since the "Black-Hawk-Down" our response to Somalia is "Somali who?"
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It looks like the Sudanese goverment is going to except UN troops in Darfur, just on the news now, so I wonder if they figure they'll need there troops on the etiopean border and want to quiet things down on there flank.

Its a pity it does seem to be a bit of a blank spot in US coverage, and most western coverage, apart from the French who are pretty engaged with africa.
 
R

Rich

Member
Its a pity it does seem to be a bit of a blank spot in US coverage, and most western coverage, apart from the French who are pretty engaged with africa.
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Its a pity the French, Germans, British, Italy, Portugal, and Spain, all of whom had vast colonial empires in Africa and raped the place for hundreds of years, have blank spots in their coverage of Africa. The French, to their discredit, had the largest Africa empire and raped the place the worst. Even today they dont hesitate to send troops to protect their national economic interests, which BTW doesn't include genocide. Ask any Rwandan tutsi that, "if you can any still alive that is".

Even still the French, with the great concern over the price of tungsten and other minerals, seem to find a way to get involved that doesn't include sending body bags home. They have a great talent for doing that.

Be that as it may I think the sons and daughters of these former Africa masters http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/images/colonialism1914.jpg should be parachuted in, and the wealth of the Euro-empires should be spent, to save Africans from themselves. Its not Americas concern.
 
P

.pt

New Member
Rich,

First of all since this is only a military forum, that type of comment should not apear. Mods will say.
As a Portuguese, and as such, one of the "sons and daughters" as you put it, of one of the former colonial empires, i have no intention of parachuting,nor do i think my country and its government will intervene anywhere in Africa, without UN endorsement or a very pressing crisis. As well as most of the countries that had colonial empires.
As for the past, i don´t deny it, but it is the past, and we must move on.
We are already major contributors to the PALOPs countries, in almost every area, doing an effort well beyond our financial capabilities, in almost every area, from humanitarian aid, to help building administration, medical facilities, etc. etc.
I don´t think i should pay for the errors of our past generations "ad eternum", or else someday you will be telling me that anything wrong in the USA is still the responsability of those ***tard colonial brits...
Anyway, a merry christmas to you too.
.pt
 
B

Big-E

Banned Member
Rich said:
Be that as it may I think the sons and daughters of these former Africa masters http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/images/colonialism1914.jpg should be parachuted in, and the wealth of the Euro-empires should be spent, to save Africans from themselves. Its not Americas concern.
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We may not be responsible for African colonialism but I think we should concern ourselves with genocide. If we had sat by during the Holocaust there wouldn't be a Jew left. If we stopped genocide in Kosovo why shouldn't we help here? Genocide is everyones concern.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Big-E said:
We may not be responsible for African colonialism but I think we should concern ourselves with genocide. If we had sat by during the Holocaust there wouldn't be a Jew left.
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You did sit by, as did we. You refused entry to Jews fleeing Hitler, as did we. You refused to bomb death camps, or the railways leading to them, or do anything else to hamper the genocide, as did we, when you & we were asked to help. The USA joined WW2 for reasons entirely unconnected to Hitlers attempt to exterminate Jews, as did we.

It so happened that your (& our, & the USSRs) actions had the happy effect of ending the attempted genocide before it was complete, but that was an unintended (though pleasing) by-product, not a deliberate aim.
 
B

Big-E

Banned Member
swerve said:
It so happened that your (& our, & the USSRs) actions had the happy effect of ending the attempted genocide before it was complete, but that was an unintended (though pleasing) by-product, not a deliberate aim.
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All the more reason why we should do something.
 
M

merocaine

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Its a pity the French, Germans, British, Italy, Portugal, and Spain, all of whom had vast colonial empires in Africa and raped the place for hundreds of years, have blank spots in their coverage of Africa. The French, to their discredit, had the largest Africa empire and raped the place the worst. Even today they dont hesitate to send troops to protect their national economic interests, which BTW doesn't include genocide. Ask any Rwandan tutsi that, "if you can any still alive that is".

Even still the French, with the great concern over the price of tungsten and other minerals, seem to find a way to get involved that doesn't include sending body bags home. They have a great talent for doing that.

Be that as it may I think the sons and daughters of these former Africa masters http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.ed...ialism1914.jpg should be parachuted in, and the wealth of the Euro-empires should be spent, to save Africans from themselves. Its not Americas concern.
11 Hours Ago 08:51 AM
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hey Rich I got some really good french cheese to go with that whine.
 
M

merocaine

New Member
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Ok update, the Somali's(ICC) are on the retreat, pulling back by up to 50 miles after coming under tank and fighter/ bomber attack.
Looks like they decided pretty quickly that streight up fight would be bad for them. Looks like this is going to evolve into a assymetrical conflict fairly rapidly. What is the Eytiopians next move? If the Somali's dont allow them to smash them up in open combat then they risk being drawn into an open ended gurrillia conflict.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6303492,00.html
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
merocaine said:
Ok update, the Somali's(ICC) are on the retreat, pulling back by up to 50 miles after coming under tank and fighter/ bomber attack.
Looks like they decided pretty quickly that streight up fight would be bad for them. Looks like this is going to evolve into a assymetrical conflict fairly rapidly. What is the Eytiopians next move? If the Somali's dont allow them to smash them up in open combat then they risk being drawn into an open ended gurrillia conflict.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6303492,00.html
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Don't play the "assymetric" game. Simply bomb the shite out of them everytime they attempt to do something "official". Guerrilla tactics are great for fighting a superior opponent. How well do they work when you need to try and run a Country??? I'm not so sure.

Undermine EVERY attempt by the Islamic Courts to exercise effective official control over it's Country and they've effectively neutralised their enemy.

Why bother playing the traditional conventional approach to counter-insurgency warfare? Deny the Islamic Courts any ability to inflict real damage to their own Country and they've won as much as they need to...
 
W

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I also think it would be really interesting to see the next Eritrean move.
Last time they went head on against the Ehtopians their MiG-29s took a beating against the Su-27s.

The problem of guerilla fighting in Africa is that the enemy the guerillas are fighting often enough don't care about any rules and so hiding behind the civilians and such things are not very usefull but cause much damage to the civilian sector.

It is interesting to see that many people are in favour of the Islamic movement there and see the sharia courts as a much better law system than the one before.
And if you look at it in an objective way you see that it is true that the sharia system works much better than the corrupt and brutal one of the former government and warlords.
 
R

Rich

Member
merocaine said:
hey Rich I got some really good french cheese to go with that whine.
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Better cheese then nothing, and you certainly dont have an intelligent arguement to accompany it.

My guess is Ethiopia is far happier with a divided Somalia, a reality that allows them far easier access to ports then a united Somalia under a hostile Islamic leadership would. They must fear being surrounded by organized Islamic militias in both Sudan and Somalia as well, "we've seen their interpretation of the Koran". With a large Muslim population of their own I guess they rightly figure they are next on the hit parade.

My guess is Ethiopia cant, and doesn't want to, sustain a long campaign. They want to thump the emerging Govt. in Somalia and keep the country divided. They may try to cut Somalia in half which is a similar strategy they used before in Eritrea. Already there are reports of Ethiopian artillery being used effectively. They are using American artillery pieces and I assume we also taught them how.

This is a good move by the Ethiopians. Far better then waiting while the new Somalian Islamic entity gets organized and armed.
 
R

Rich

Member
radiosilence said:
Who is arming/funding the Somali Council of Islamic Courts?
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The same ones who funded, armed, and fought for the Mujahideen, Taliban, Al Qaeda, the madrasses...ect And that is the citizens and Governments of the Islamic world, some of whom maintain an illusion of being friends of America.

We have been involved in Somalia for years trying to avoid a Afghanistan type terror camp nation from being established. Al Qaeda has also been involved in helping the ICU which is why we began helping the warlords who were fighting them. I hate to say it be we are far better off with the warlords then with a terrorist supporting/exporting regime in Somalia.

The countries that have sent them arms and aid includes Egypt, Libya, Iran, Eritrea, Djibouti, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the Hezbollah.
 
W

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The same ones who funded, armed, and fought for the Mujahideen,...
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You mean the US? ;)
It have to be lovely to live in a world of black and white.

Before shouting about the bad islamic movement there you should look at how the population has been threatened by the warlords and the "government" which is now supported by the US, Ehtiopia and other states.
Many people there really feel and believe that they live better under the rule of the islamic movement and are willing to accept them despite their more radical islamic views.

I don't they say that I'm in favor the islamic movement but the situation there is far away from being divided into the good and the bad guys like you tell us.
 
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