Gunships

A

adroth

New Member
I believe it would be safe to say that most, if not all, folks here have heard of AC-130 Spectre gunships. A fair number probably know about the AC-47 "Spooky" gunships of the Vietnam era. What other nations have dedicated gunships?

On Timawa.net, we've been talking about how the South Africans mounted side-facing HMGs on their helicopters to achieve the same effect. Instead of having to do straffing runs, the choppers could simply circle as they delivered fire support.

Anyone else?
 
U

USNavySEAL3310

New Member
I know early on helicopters were considered gunships because they'd be mounted with rockets (FFARs for the Huey) and a 20mm cannon, maybe 12.7mm MGs, and provide CAS/fire support.

I think the U.S. is the only country that operates a fixed-wing gunship. The Russians use the HIND and Kamovs, Europe the Eurocopter Tiger, and the Rooivalk for the South Africans to name a few. Those are all helicopters.

Hueys and Cheyennes were used as U.S. gunships before the -130
 
C

Cailet

Member
I think some people use Lynx and Puma in a similar way. Cartainly at sea both can sling Exocet-type missiles around.
 
A

adroth

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
USNavySEAL3310 said:
I know early on helicopters were considered gunships because they'd be mounted with rockets (FFARs for the Huey) and a 20mm cannon, maybe 12.7mm MGs, and provide CAS/fire support.

I think the U.S. is the only country that operates a fixed-wing gunship. The Russians use the HIND and Kamovs, Europe the Eurocopter Tiger, and the Rooivalk for the South Africans to name a few. Those are all helicopters.

Hueys and Cheyennes were used as U.S. gunships before the -130
Click to expand...
The helicopters you mentioned are essentially attack helicopters. AFAIK they attack their targets in strafing runs, instead of circling overhead with the guns firing to the side.

A Singaporean poster once showed a photograph of a helicopter with side-facing chain gun. Not sure on what helicopter they mounted the gun though.
 
RubiconNZ

RubiconNZ

The Wanderer
adroth said:
The helicopters you mentioned are essentially attack helicopters. AFAIK they attack their targets in strafing runs, instead of circling overhead with the guns firing to the side.

A Singaporean poster once showed a photograph of a helicopter with side-facing chain gun. Not sure on what helicopter they mounted the gun though.
Click to expand...
If it was Singaporean it would be either Super Puma or Cougar I would assume. Maybe a Seahawk, they've had Chainguns on them I believe, the Super Puma is used for SAR so a side mounted chain gun makes sense.
 
Last edited:
U

USNavySEAL3310

New Member
adroth said:
The helicopters you mentioned are essentially attack helicopters. AFAIK they attack their targets in strafing runs, instead of circling overhead with the guns firing to the side.
Click to expand...
Yes but they still carry out the same role as the U.S. -130. They provide CAS and force protection. Not full time, most of the time they're attack and do do strafing runs. However, it isn't rare to see them hover or make circles firing at a target like the -130.

Really the only difference between a -130 and helicopter gunships is that the -130 is safer as it fires from much higher altitudes with great precision. The firepower is mostly the same as is the technology used (recently, not back in the day).
 
E

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
USNavySEAL3310 said:
Yes but they still carry out the same role as the U.S. -130. They provide CAS and force protection. Not full time, most of the time they're attack and do do strafing runs. However, it isn't rare to see them hover or make circles firing at a target like the -130.

Really the only difference between a -130 and helicopter gunships is that the -130 is safer as it fires from much higher altitudes with great precision. The firepower is mostly the same as is the technology used (recently, not back in the day).
Click to expand...
Most attack helicopters do not go on strafing runs, they will take you out hovering in a stationary position, and hit you at lond ranges.

Yes - a Specter may be safer but you will not see them on the battlefield during daylight hours engaging targets, night time role for these guy`s.
 
A

adroth

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
eckherl said:
Most attack helicopters do not go on strafing runs, they will take you out hovering in a stationary position, and hit you at lond ranges.
Click to expand...
I thought they were re-evaluating this mode of attack based on the disaster the happened during the opening days of Gulf War II. As I understand it, US Army Apaches got beat up good because they didn't know that there were Iraqi soldiers where they were hovering. Small arms fire even downed one.

The USMC attack helicopters, reportedly, operate the way Philippine Air Force does -- no hovering; approach fast, at high angles, then unleash hell.
 
Last edited:
W

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
During the A-stan fighting the Apaches also started to fight in a more mobile way.
The OMFs throw an impressive amount of heavy MG fire, RPGs and small arms fire at enemy helicopters and this is a real problem when you have to go close to the enemy due to terrain and ID issues.
 
E

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
adroth said:
I thought they were re-evaluating this mode of attack based on the disaster the happened during the opening days of Gulf War II. As I understand it, US Army Apaches got beat up good because they didn't know that there were Iraqi soldiers where they were hovering. Small arms fire even downed one.

The USMC attack helicopters, reportedly, operate the way Philippine Air Force does -- no hovering; approach fast, at high angles, then unleash hell.
Click to expand...
They got shot up because they were near a town that someone performed a crappy recon on.

I guess I need to get out of my fighting a organized Army frame of mind and look at the current threats that they are facing in Afgan and Iraq.:)
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
adroth said:
I believe it would be safe to say that most, if not all, folks here have heard of AC-130 Spectre gunships. A fair number probably know about the AC-47 "Spooky" gunships of the Vietnam era. What other nations have dedicated gunships?

On Timawa.net, we've been talking about how the South Africans mounted side-facing HMGs on their helicopters to achieve the same effect. Instead of having to do straffing runs, the choppers could simply circle as they delivered fire support.

Anyone else?
Click to expand...
That is how the AC-130's operate as well, flying "race tracks" around a target and pouring fire from side mounted weapon systems. As noted above, they possess quite a bit more firepower than helo's and their ability to loiter (based on the long range C-130 airframe as they are) is second to none...
 
G

Gremlin29

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Orbiting a threat area in a helicopter at altitude, would be suicidal! The AC-130 has a sophisticated sensor suite that couldn't be crammed in a helicopter. 1 or 2 chain guns a gun ship does not make, and then there's ammo.
 
L

LancerMc

New Member
A gunship back during Vietnam was any aircraft plane or helicopter loaded down with guns, cannons, and rockets meant to support ground forces.

That term isn't used anymore for helicopters, but they still perform the role defined as a gunship during Vietnam.

Helicopter gunships were used to support the deployment of ground soldiers from other helicopters. If you have ever seen movies like Apocalypse Now or We Were Soldiers, you'll see these UH-1's gunships.

The AC-130's massive firepower (25mm Gatling's, 40mm BOFORs, and 105mm Howitzer) is way beyond anything a helicopter could put out today. AC-130's have also extremely sophisticated RWR and IRWR's to protect them from AAA and SAM threats. The newest AC-130's will drop a new small precision guided munition or missile from their wings (What is this weapon called?). A Chinook mite be able to carry some of the firepower of an AC-130 but like other posts have stated, it would make it an easy target.

I know also the Colombian AF is flying an updated turbo prop powered AC-47 that can be converted into a cargo aircraft.
 
A

adroth

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Gremlin29 said:
Orbiting a threat area in a helicopter at altitude, would be suicidal!
Click to expand...
Why?

The AC-130 has a sophisticated sensor suite that couldn't be crammed in a helicopter. 1 or 2 chain guns a gun ship does not make, and then there's ammo.
Click to expand...
No doubt that the AC-130 is a sophisticated piece of weaponry.

However, what sort of sensor packages did the old AC-47s have? Just because it isn't at par with the AC-130, it doesn't mean an aircraft is not a gunship. It just means its not as good.
 
L

LancerMc

New Member
The updated AC-47's have had the addition of FLIR, night vision cockpits, and a more advance fire control system.
 
L

LancerMc

New Member
Basically an C-47 formated to fire mini guns out the side, some type of optical sight for aiming, and a door to throw flares out for ease of aiming.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top