Official Chengdu J-20 Discussion Thread

[wp2000]

Re: China J-XX official graph

A possible design proposal for China’s next generation stealthy fighter aircraft. The design resembles certain design features of the U.S. F/A-22. The real design may differ significantly.

from:http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx_gallery1.asp

Thanks & Regards
Yasir Karim

As the picture's subtitle says, it's a proposal made in 1993. As far as I know there were more than a dozen of design proposals submitted to PLAAF before year 2000, and none of them were accepted. Currently only designs up to 93 were leaked out. I am yet to see any designs after 94, apart from fan arts.

 

[wassss]

Re: China J-XX official graph

really?in CHINA，I haven't heart that before

 

[ThInK TaNk]

Re: China J-XX official graph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-XX


http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=74759

check these links guys i m sure it will help u!!!!

 

[crocodile]

Those photo just some assumed shape of J-XX .You can find a lot of assumed J-XX's photos in chinese forum,but nobody can tell you which is the real one.

 

[PLA2025]

The pics we can find on the internet are either fanfics, PS images or early sketches of the J-XX. We only know that China's first 5th generation stealth fighter is a medium (if not heavy) combat aircraft designed by Shenyang being a twin-seater and twin engine stealth fighter with twin tail fins. The design has no canards and "might have" its similarities with the F/A-22, F-15 and F/A-18F Super Hornet.
We don't know how many missiles it can carry and what powerplant it would have etc.

 

[Gaenth]

What about Su-47?

This J-XX story is certainly exciting but I was thinking: Now that Russia and India will jointly develop a production version of Su-47 (Berkut) that I understand will fill the same role as the J-XX which is to face some oposition to F-22, Wouldn't China want a piece of that cake and its benefits instead of developing an ATF from scratch? I mean such a programme will be terribly expensive and will not deliver the capability China needs any time soon, it happened to the US, it happened to Russia alone. To become a partner in the Su-47 may be better? I'm sure China would be more than welcome in that partenrship, and the plane would become a lot cheaper and hit the runways faster for the three nations.

 

[PLA2025]

I guess China wants to become more independent when talking about developping their stuff including military technologies.
India has shown interests too to develop their own fighters speaking of the LCA and MCA while China's first indigenious design was the J-8 Finback. Many Westerners claim that the newly introduced J-10 is just a LAVI copy, but it isn't since the LAVI only served as an inspiration for the blueprint stage. The J-10 by Chengdu is the result of LAVI, J-9(which never entered production), analyzing a F-16A lent from Pakistan, Russian assistance in powerplant and attack radar and the development of Chengdu's own engineers.
The J-XX will not likely become China's airforce backbone since it would be too expensive having a warplane with an unit cost of around 60-80 mio.USD. We will most likely see more J-10A and J-10C coming out the factories than J-XX. In the US they also won't introduce that many Raptors (~150-200) but much more JSF (~1500-2000). The only thing Chinese might need help from the Russian design bureau might be the powerplants and radar techs for its J-XX.
But there have been unconfirmed info that China is assisting Russia financially in developping parts needed for 5th gen fighter jets. So I guess there might be a covert deal between China and Russia.
Both China and India have the biggest population and it is neccesary that both nations must modernize its military forces to establish a solid defensive capability against any possible threat. Asia has been bullied a lot in the 19th and early 20th century, so we need to invest in our national security.

 

[colvin123]

Now days , these models are easy to be made by many softwares. so don't believe it before real photo come. Even photo ,can be make over .

 

[qwerty223]

Its like the J-10 and the F-22 had a love child. But seriously I think its difficult to have some concrete shape of the secret J-xx...hence lots of artist impressions flying around.

Hi, I am new here and I know the topic had been far. Just wana give an opinion of mine regarding the statement above.

I wont be surprise that it looks like a F-22 as the chinese don actually boders how it looks. No doubt that the design of a F-22 is been proved to be a great success, it is wise to jump straight onto it.

Any same thought here?

 

[Viktor]

Hi, I am new here and I know the topic had been far. Just wana give an opinion of mine regarding the statement above.

I wont be surprise that it looks like a F-22 as the chinese don actually boders how it looks. No doubt that the design of a F-22 is been proved to be a great success, it is wise to jump straight onto it.

Any same thought here?

I agree it will be a total ripoff of F-22, I have found somewhere pics of a chineese 5th generation fighter flying over some city and i will post it soon.
I read that actualy two seperate Chineese 5th generation fighter projects exists under development but Im not sure are they going to accept both (one cheapen to make up the numbers and other more sophisticated) or are they going to choose only one. Theirs economy is booming and money is not a problem.

 

[SABRE]

I agree it will be a total ripoff of F-22, I have found somewhere pics of a chineese 5th generation fighter flying over some city and i will post it soon.

The 5th gen J-xx does not exists yet, how the h3ll did it fly over 'some city'? You are fooling your self with fake pics, which are artistic impressions and not the official drawing/design/pics.

I read that actualy two seperate Chineese 5th generation fighter projects exists under development but Im not sure are they going to accept both (one cheapen to make up the numbers and other more sophisticated) or are they going to choose only one. Theirs economy is booming and money is not a problem.

Thats what the word on the street is. Two companies, CAC (builders of J-10, JF-17 & J/F-7) & SAC (producers of J-11) are both fighting for the project & both have their own designs. Both designs may be approved and you may see one aircraft as a counter for F-22 and the other for JSF-35.

 

[tphuang]

there have been a lot more than 2 designs, but I think China is probably looking at a hi-lo combination at the moment. Suppose CAC and SAC both submitted proposals, we are looking at 4 designs for the 2 future fighters. There is also XAC, but I think they might just concentrate on the next generation bomber.

J-xx is very vague at the moment.

 

[Viktor]

The 5th gen J-xx does not exists yet, how the h3ll did it fly over 'some city'? You are fooling your self with fake pics, which are artistic impressions and not the official drawing/design/pics.

Right.

 

[SABRE]

Right.

Victor the aircraft you are seeing is F-22 not J-XX & its photoshop.

The pic was posted on China defence forum and the topic, I think, was "F-22 detected over China" [even the maker doesnt claim it to be J-XX].

As I said before, J-xx or Chinese 5th generation aircraft does not physicaly exist yet and I dont think you'll see any thing physical in presence of Chinese 5th gen aircraft before 2010-2015. Even if SAC & CAC have produced any prototypes for evaluations (like americans do) you wont see it flying.

 

[TrangleC]

The initially posted pictures of this thread clearly show the concept of the stealthier version of the Mig 1.44.

 

[Viktor]

The initially posted pictures of this thread clearly show the concept of the stealthier version of the Mig 1.44.

Mig 1.44 is just tehnological demonstrator. Russian 5th generation fighter will be as stealth as F-22 most likely.
It is now obivious that Russian is going to produce two version of 5th generation fighter: havier and lighter. Chineese version J-xx will be greatly influence by US and Russian fighters as well as Russian scienties.

 

[TrangleC]

Yes, but they always said there would be a stealth version of it and the resemblence to the prototype is obvious. I can't say whether this pictures come from Mig or from some tallented 3d-modeller geek (A different looking, but still recognizing 3d modell of a stealth-Mig 1.44 already apperared in a japanese video game 6 or 7 years ago. It didn't look like that one here, but also like a stealth version of the real prototype.), but if there is a design for a stealt version of the Mig 1.44, that is how it would have to look like.

 

[alexsa]

While I am no expert I have to observe that there is a lot more to stealth than just the shape of the aircraft. During testing of Have Blue the aircarft lost 'stealth' through a simple misalignment of an undercarriage door. So while I am sure most aircraft manufactures could produce an aircraft that had the external appearance of a stealth aircraft how effective the product wouel be is a different issue. This relates to both the consturction of the aircarft, the materials used and, as imporatnt, the systems employed on that platform.

These are the areas where the US have speant their money and I doubt they are providing information freely on how they achived that. On this basis (or unless some body is selling the US out) it would appear likley that an effective stealth platform Russian, Indian or PRC produced may be a bit down the track. The development time for the F-22 should be a good pointer in this regard.

 

[Viktor]

While I am no expert I have to observe that there is a lot more to stealth than just the shape of the aircraft. During testing of Have Blue the aircarft lost 'stealth' through a simple misalignment of an undercarriage door. So while I am sure most aircraft manufactures could produce an aircraft that had the external appearance of a stealth aircraft how effective the product wouel be is a different issue. This relates to both the consturction of the aircarft, the materials used and, as imporatnt, the systems employed on that platform.

These are the areas where the US have speant their money and I doubt they are providing information freely on how they achived that. On this basis (or unless some body is selling the US out) it would appear likley that an effective stealth platform Russian, Indian or PRC produced may be a bit down the track. The development time for the F-22 should be a good pointer in this regard.

US F-22 has being on board since 1980 and from intial tought of 600 (correct me if Im wrong) planes to be bought it has now come down to 183. So Your argument about spending 20 years for achiving ultimate stealth does not stand. They where having enormous problems and cost of the plane rise to 380M a piece.
Russia has only recently started to emerge from economic donwfall and jet they are catching up with the 5th generation fighter. Im sure you know there are at the moment 2 types of Russian 5th generation fighters in development. Havier and lighter version. Theirs prototype will be revieled in a matter of months and serial production will start within 5years. I say it is a great acchivment.
Stealth is not so complicated to achive in comparison with other fighter carasterictic and its basic is long time know to scientiest.
Russian 5th generation plane will unlikely US have pasiv and active stealth.
Activ stealth in form of plasma has being recently tested on Su-35 and it acchived reducment factor of 100 and sistem is still in development phase. So dont have any ilusions over Russian capability to produce F-22 like stealth planes or even stelthier.
China or India however are in big problems they cant produce even 4th generation fighter and are mostly relying on Russian help or help from the spy intelegence.

 

[TrangleC]

Yes, stealth technology is not that complicated. After all it's just about avoiding the reflection of electromagnetic waves. Every physics professor at every small university of this planet can tell you a lot of theoretical knowlege about EM waves and energy. That is no whichcraft.
All you need is a few EM experts and few radar technology experts (who can tell you things like that you have to avoid 90° angles and stuff like that) + engineers who are able to translate their theoretical knowledge into a piece of technology and you got your stealth thingie.
That is nothing only a few voodo-doctor-engineers in an top secret american laboratory can do.