How effectivley could India "counter balance" China?

[long live usa]

some say that America may plan to use india to "counter balance" china i say bull s#it,anyway all that aside how effectivley could india way out with china in a reginal conflict? i have some things to say about it but for now i must snooze:sleepy2

 

[Big-E]

If she builds the 4 ADS' along with Gorshkov she will be the 2nd most powerful navy in the world, hows that for a thorn in PLANs side.

 

[chinawhite]

Not very well. I see both countries becoming more friendly

Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai

 

[Snayke]

I don't think their navies would even reach each other. Singapore would want to stay out of the conflict, thus letting either in would make it seem like they were aiding one side. It would be totally army and air force I reckon.

 

[Big-E]

I don't think their navies would even reach each other. Singapore would want to stay out of the conflict, thus letting either in would make it seem like they were aiding one side. It would be totally army and air force I reckon.

Your kidding right... look up Gwadar Port Project

http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2528.html

 

[Gollevainen]

But isen't the idea of bluewater navyes that they are able to reach oceans not normaly linked to the countrys martime precence?

India is strenghtening it's bluewater capapilityes and China is eagerly gainig the capability at the first place. Certainly these two major Asian powers will someday face each others. Wheter this "meeting" is a peacefull or not, thats entirely another issue. Personally I doupt that India and China could be long term allyes, superpowers seldom do and as both these countryes are expanding their veils, and to the same area, some sort of confrontation is inevitble.

 

[aaaditya]

Not very well. I see both countries becoming more friendly

Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai

last time they said hindi-chini bhai bhai(indians and chinese are brothers),they attacked india.

 

[long live usa]

the indian army is still an all vulenteer force correct?

 

[Snayke]

Although I have noticed a significant improvement in relations between India and China's defence forces. Well visits from their respective ministers do mean something.

 

[Big-E]

Well visits from their respective ministers do mean something.

No they don't... It's all a sham. China is singlehandedly leading the effort to contain India at all costs IMO. This can be seen in her alliance with Pakistan, her closing ties with Sri Lanka, Bangledesh and interference in Nepal.

 

[aaaditya]

the indian army is still an all vulenteer force correct?

indian army has :

active troops:980000

army reserve troops(volunteers):300000 first line troops(within 5 years of full time service) + 500000 second line troops(with commitment upto 50 years of age)

total army reserve troops: 800000

territorial army(volunteers): 40000 first line troops and 160000 second line troops ,a total of 200000


here check out this link:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Orbat.html


no wonder it is one of the largest armie's in the world and added to this are the parmillitary forces(550000 strong) and the police force(400000). who can be called in to assist the troops during a war also villagers living in the border villages are equipped with ak47's captured from terrorists and are organised into the village defence commitees to carry out subversive activities and border defence as well as intelligence gathering for the indian army during a war.

 

[n21]

No they don't... It's all a sham. China is singlehandedly leading the effort to contain India at all costs IMO. This can be seen in her alliance with Pakistan, her closing ties with Sri Lanka, Bangledesh and interference in Nepal.

It is very complex relationship these asian countries have...US see India as an counter balance to China.. add to that China is one of the largest trading partner of India...current rate of growth in trade ,people expect China to replace US as the largest trading partner of India within next 5 years.
So the whole question comes up?? Would u fight with a country where exchanging dollars sounds more interesting than exchanging bullets!
something like US-China relations.. economics will always prevent a conflict b/w US and China.

However India is very wary of the Chinese continued effort to arm Pakistan.
This is also one of the reason why India would like to reduce dependence on Russian weapon system.. u see any thing from Russia would end up on the Chinese hand ... and strangely enough technologies go to Pakistan!
Hence Indians see that "westernising" the defence forces is the only way to counter this. So u see lot of Indo-Israel deals..which India knows that US would not allow Israel exports to China,hence technological advantage is not comprised.

Any conflict with China would invariably lead to India fighting on two fronts western as well as eastern.Even in case of conflict only on the western side, Chinese systems would be available in plenty... hence it finally boils down to "how good are u against the Chinese system". Also India has to maintain a "quantity of quality" to defend itself. the IAF has been persistently asking to increase it strength from 35 to 60 squandrons to prepare itself for two front conflict. The navy is also heavily increasing it blue water cap.

Any conflict with China,these two arm of the defense forces would the back bone of the Indian defence.

 

[Wild Weasel]

Thanks for the info, aaaditya. That is quite a formidible force, and it looks as if they will be a primary center of gravity in that region for the forseeable future.

I believe that India is just as likely to be the dominant military superpower in Asia, perhaps even eclipsing that of the PRC.
India seems to be recieving as much tech support from the USA, and the EU, as they receive from Russia.

Which is two more sources than China has ( Official ) access to.

I think the real question is:
Will India and the PRC grow up together, due to common interests, trade, and shared resources?

Or will they grow apart, because of a lack of any of the above?

In any case, it is an interesting matchup to wargame.

 

[tphuang]

It's interesting, USA is clearly trying to get the Japan, Australia and India into its sphere of countering China. China is obviously trying to break that. Now, Japan and China will always hate each other, so it's basically down to persuading Australia and India. So far, it seems like China is in certain ways trying to buy off India and Australia with the economic charm. We will see.

As for China is at a disadvantage with the tech support, I think that's overrated. In general, China is looking to be self-sufficient in terms of defence. You can see that its military import has pretty much been decreasing the last few years. And many of its indigenous systems got developed because it was embargoed.

 

[Wild Weasel]

As for China is at a disadvantage with the tech support, I think that's overrated. In general, China is looking to be self-sufficient in terms of defence. You can see that its military import has pretty much been decreasing the last few years. And many of its indigenous systems got developed because it was embargoed.

Well, think about it. China has to be independent- because of the embargoes.
India, on the other hand, has had no such restrictions. They have bought, and been given significant access to some major technology from all three contenders.
Additionally, I believe that India does not have the same "PR problem" in the West, that China has. For instance, there is no concern about whether or not India will attempt to invade Taiwan.

In terms of capability, India is actually ahead of the game in several areas:
1. They operate a real blue-water navy, centered on CV task forces.
2. They have operated missile launching nuclear subs in the past, long before China did. They are now on their way to develop the most advanced sub in the East.

I'm just saying, India seems to be poised to become China's biggest competitor, by buying and selling to and from everyone- including China.
Given the industrial capacity, and energy demands of both nations in the near future- it seems likely that they could square off when the markets explode and resources start to dwindle.

 

[SABRE]

I have always believed that if you have to become a super power, you have to be in a risk free zone/region. If you are not than you must have allies/friendly/strategic partners in the region, specially at your borders. In case of China & Indian, India vertually has no allie in the region which China enjoys greater ties with Pakistan on Military & economic basis. Bangladesh happens to be the 2nd country not in favor of India & is moving into Chinese block. Another country in Chinese pocket is Mayanmar (Burma).

However, the country with the safest & effective access to energy might probably take a big leap. Putting aside the nuclear energy, vertually all the natural energy is present in the West Asia (ME) & North West Asia(Central Asia). For China it is easy to access central asia while it has already signed a MoU with Pakistan for the access to energy resources of ME (i.e. Saudis planning to establish an oil pipe-line via Pakistan). In the other side, India has vertually bailed out of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipe line. & the gas pipe line is as far as Pakistan is willing to go with India. It denied oil pipe lines from ME to India via Pakistan rout, for the time being.

The Gwadar project primarily gives advantage to China as it helps it secure its oil rout as well as gives its navy external base.


However, with all this I see no conflict between any of the countries named above. Specially China & India. I believe the age of war between Asian nations is vertually over. All wars will take place at diplomatic tables. So, who ever manages to have greater economic strength will be the global representative of Asia & many asian countries specially in the South Asia (Indian Sub Continent) will like to make sure that China succeeds.

 

[tphuang]

Well, think about it. China has to be independent- because of the embargoes.
India, on the other hand, has had no such restrictions. They have bought, and been given significant access to some major technology from all three contenders.
Additionally, I believe that India does not have the same "PR problem" in the West, that China has. For instance, there is no concern about whether or not India will attempt to invade Taiwan.

In terms of capability, India is actually ahead of the game in several areas:
1. They operate a real blue-water navy, centered on CV task forces.
2. They have operated missile launching nuclear subs in the past, long before China did. They are now on their way to develop the most advanced sub in the East.

I'm just saying, India seems to be poised to become China's biggest competitor, by buying and selling to and from everyone- including China.
Given the industrial capacity, and energy demands of both nations in the near future- it seems likely that they could square off when the markets explode and resources start to dwindle.

Look Saudi Arabia has been purchasing weapons for as long as we can remember, but nobody would list them as a threat. I keep on reading how worried the Americans are by all of the Chinese purchases of Russian weapons. They should be far more worried when China stops these purchases.

I'm just going to keep this to nuclear subs in terms of IN vs PLAN, so I will just say that China has been operating SSNs and a lame-duck SSBN for a while now, so they should have plenty of experience with nuclear subs. The first one was commissioned as early as 1974. India only leased the Charlie class from 1988-1991. It's true that they are developing a SSN, but there is no telling how advanced it will be or how long it will take them to develop it. And on top of that, we have no idea how advanced the 093 and 094 class is. And I suspect a 095 is already in the works. So, I do disagree with your second statement.

 

[Big-E]

I think the real question is:
Will India and the PRC grow up together, due to common interests, trade, and shared resources?

Or will they grow apart, because of a lack of any of the above?

I think it all rests with China. The same can be said about Sino/US relations as well. If she will stop militarizing herself and focus on domestic policy rather than becoming the next superpower she will be a great partner in peace. Otherwise she will be everyones worst nightmare... especially India!

 

[Big-E]

I have always believed that if you have to become a super power, you have to be in a risk free zone/region. If you are not than you must have allies/friendly/strategic partners in the region, specially at your borders. In case of China & Indian, India vertually has no allie in the region which China enjoys greater ties with Pakistan on Military & economic basis. Bangladesh happens to be the 2nd country not in favor of India & is moving into Chinese block. Another country in Chinese pocket is Mayanmar (Burma).

However, the country with the safest & effective access to energy might probably take a big leap. Putting aside the nuclear energy, vertually all the natural energy is present in the West Asia (ME) & North West Asia(Central Asia). For China it is easy to access central asia while it has already signed a MoU with Pakistan for the access to energy resources of ME (i.e. Saudis planning to establish an oil pipe-line via Pakistan). In the other side, India has vertually bailed out of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipe line. & the gas pipe line is as far as Pakistan is willing to go with India. It denied oil pipe lines from ME to India via Pakistan rout, for the time being.

The Gwadar project primarily gives advantage to China as it helps it secure its oil rout as well as gives its navy external base.


However, with all this I see no conflict between any of the countries named above. Specially China & India. I believe the age of war between Asian nations is vertually over. All wars will take place at diplomatic tables. So, who ever manages to have greater economic strength will be the global representative of Asia & many asian countries specially in the South Asia (Indian Sub Continent) will like to make sure that China succeeds.

Wow... Everything you just outlined is my case for why there WILL be conflict in the future. One thing we must remember is that there is more to power than just military. Economics is the most poinient power of all. PRC understands the need to gain the economic advantage as part of her "Peaceful Rise" to power. As she expands her markets she will be knocking India out of the picture, conflict is inevitable IMO. China's goal is nothing short of becoming the next superpower and the biggest thing standing in her way is India. There is not enough room for two big boys on the block, one will dominate the other.

 

[long live usa]

China's goal is nothing short of becoming the next superpower and the biggest thing standing in her way is India. There is not enough room for two big boys on the block, one will dominate the other.

who will dominate this struggle?:shudder ,india's navy will come into play but would a indian battle group really go through the straits of malacca?nuclear subs would come into play but as someone already said china has been in that buisness longer than india,and ive been reading things like "indian armed forces woefully short of equipment"