Military Aviation News and Discussion

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The latest on the KC-46…the Boeing C-F continues. As they continue to bleed money, it is hard to imagine there will be any progress in trying to design and build a competitive and efficient new single aisle jet.

 

Terran

Well-Known Member
Thing on this one is the Question of where the cracks are.
”The cracks were not found on any flight surfaces or hinges, but rather on the primary or secondary structures”
Boeing is having a really rough decade to be sure. Though it should be remembered that two of the most well known issues with the KC46 are not Boeing but the US Government. The USAF required/designed the Rockwell Collin’s Remote vision system and placed the requirements for the boom. Both proved to be troublesome and would have been on the KC45.
 

SolarisKenzo

Well-Known Member
The latest on the KC-46…the Boeing C-F continues. As they continue to bleed money, it is hard to imagine there will be any progress in trying to design and build a competitive and efficient new single aisle jet.

The KC-46 saga continues...


Lets see how the italian air force tender goes (Italy being an historic boeing-tankers operator since the KC-707) but if the KC-46 doesnt get selected I can assume the european market is completely gone for boeing (Poland negotiating MRTT and A400M in exchange for a share in Airbus...).
We should have news on the italian air force choice within this summer...

 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Thing on this one is the Question of where the cracks are.

Boeing is having a really rough decade to be sure. Though it should be remembered that two of the most well known issues with the KC46 are not Boeing but the US Government. The USAF required/designed the Rockwell Collin’s Remote vision system and placed the requirements for the boom. Both proved to be troublesome and would have been on the KC45.
Yes, some of the USAF kit specified with the order is part of the problem for which Boeing can’t be blamed but their horrible QA performance is paramount. Debris and tools left inside supposedly complete jets and now cracks…together with the 737 crap and the 787 rollout wasn’t exactly great so really painful for shareholders and customers. The 777neo is late which begs the question, is Boeing’s financial situation adding to the chaos?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The latest on the KC-46…the Boeing C-F continues. As they continue to bleed money, it is hard to imagine there will be any progress in trying to design and build a competitive and efficient new single aisle jet.

Just buy A330MRTT off the shelf . . . problems fixed!
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Just buy A330MRTT off the shelf . . . problems fixed!
Yep! At least our defence procurement got one thing right. Elon is speeding up the new AirForce One jets, great news, hope Trump takes his team on the maiden flight…are there high altitude stealthy icebergs?:p
 

Terran

Well-Known Member
Just buy A330MRTT off the shelf . . . problems fixed!
Problems started actually.

first production volume. The Boeing has built 93 KC46 as of January this year. Airbus has converted/built 62 A330MRTT in all its variants. With 82 units ordered so far.
The French are the largest buyer at 15 with the Brits as #2 at 14. A good number of the A330 MRTT were conversions not actual KC330 builds, But former airliners stripped down and turned into tankers with a verity of configurations . Some lack probes with just Drogues some lack Drogues. Some are still serving as passenger planes but with Political passengers well others are cargo planes. This means that although the A330 MRTT has been fairly successful it’s not a proper comparison. Because Airbus hasn’t been able to meet tha same criteria that Boeing has to for the KC45.
Where in all the KC45 have to be built to a single standard in large volume from scratch, Airbus is converting or building often to a different standard in batch orders.

Hypothetically if the USAF was to scrap the KC46 it would have 90 tankers to Order. As the contract was for 179 with 89 delivered. That would be a bombshell into Airbus. More than the entire Global sales of all configurations of the A330 MRTT. In order or delivered So Airbus’s standing order book would basically Quintuple and not one but two major delays would be created for the USAF.
The first would be as the USAF would be back of the line for KC330s. Its presence would however also badly affect any other potential buyers as the USAF order would take priority. Second as the USAF orders would have to be added to the A330 Production Line. As of December that’s an order book full to bursting. 1479 A330 CEO airframes on order new some 400+ NEOs. It’s likely that the first hypothetical KC330 wouldn’t be available for flight testing until the next decade. The number of possible buys in this scenario is so high that Airbus would be justified in opening a production line in the U.S. the OG KC45 plan had that at the Airbus facility in Mobile Alabama. However in the modern world that plans is building A220s and A320s. But that again isn’t an easy task as probably wouldn’t be possible before the middle of the next decade.
Thats just the Airbus side.

On the USAF side we would be looking at a mixed logistics system. The KC46 for half the fleet and the Hypothetical KC330 on the other half. With almost no commonalities between them. The KC46 uses PW 4062 (4000-94) turbo fans the A330MRTT would depend upon base model if a NEO then it’s a RR Trent 7000 if it’s a CEO maybe a PW 4170 (4000-100). A complete set of new maintenance and training system. Plus years of delays till deliveries and the volume of delivery would be reduced outing more stress on the existing fleets of residual KC135 and the KC46 as well as requiring more assistance from allied Air Forces for tanking missions.
The DOD would have to pay huge cancellation fee to Boeing and its suppliers.
Speaking of Boeing and fees… Boeing would make a huge stink as would its unions and that would bring in the States of Washington, Kansas, Texas, Illinois, South Carolina.
You would have Congress giving anyone in an Airforce uniform or DOD position higher than equivalent to an O4/GS12 a Colonoscopy on Capitol Hill. The massive shift in budget to pay for the new lines of training and equipment plus the fee would anger a President whom seems intent on taking a chainsaw to the budget. It would be a “YUGE” drama. “Great Television” poor performance.
 

SolarisKenzo

Well-Known Member

Leonardo and Baykar signed an MoU to establish an EU-based joint venture for the production of drones.
The goal is to create a new european giant in drone production to compete against american and israeli players in the global market.
The new company will be Europe's biggest drone manufacturer.

The JV will be finalized within 6 months (EU authorities confirmed a fast-track approach to speed up all the necessary authorizations).
According to rumors, the first AKINCI with european sensors and payload will be produced within the year, marking an historic step in european arms manufacturing and improving autonomy from the US.

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swerve

Super Moderator
...Second as the USAF orders would have to be added to the A330 Production Line. As of December that’s an order book full to bursting. 1479 A330 CEO airframes on order new some 400+ NEOs. ...
According to Airbus, as of the end of February 2025, A330 total orders were 1863 - of which 1625 had been delivered. That leaves 238 A330 on order & not yet delivered, of which 7 are A330ceo & 231 A330neo.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

With all the talks on improve productivity and enlarging Euro Defense Industry, this kind of interview shown how to build one project to rival US Defense industry numbers are still difficult to achieve.
 

SolarisKenzo

Well-Known Member
Portuguese air force drops F-35 deal and will instead acquire a european fighter.


Eurofighter consortium sent formal price-offer to Turkey after Ankara's official request.

 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Portuguese air force drops F-35 deal and will instead acquire a european fighter.


Eurofighter consortium sent formal price-offer to Turkey after Ankara's official request.

A "remote controlled switch off function doesn't exist", probably, but it is maybe indeed better to be not too dependent from such an unreliable 'ally'.

|"In addition to the French fighter, the European options are the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Saab Gripen E/F."|

The Saab JAS39 Gripen still has an american engine, so in this case it is better to go for the other options.

Maybe Portugal should join the Tempest/GCAP or FCAS programs.
 
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John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Probably FCAS and maybe some Typhoons as per Spain makes more sense for Portugal. Can't recall if Spain has committed to F-35s?
 

SolarisKenzo

Well-Known Member
Spain didn't commit to F-35 but the spanish navy wanted to acquire a few (perhaps together with the italian navy to lower costs) to replace Harriers.
I agree on EF-2000 or Rafale for Lisbon, also Portugal having a lot of islands in the atlantic (especially the Azores, home of a major NATO air base, and Madeira) might prefer a twin-engine after all... and the EF-2000 would be a good choice also because of Spain using it.
 

OldTex

Well-Known Member
Given that the FAP (Força Aérea Portuguesa) has bought C-390 and A-29N from Embraer it would not be outside the realm of possibility that JAS39E/Fs are bought to replace the F-16A/Bs. It would also be conceivable given the historical and political connections. Having operated single engine jet fighters it would be a significant step to move to twin engine fast jets IMO.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Spain didn't commit to F-35 but the spanish navy wanted to acquire a few (perhaps together with the italian navy to lower costs) to replace Harriers.
I agree on EF-2000 or Rafale for Lisbon, also Portugal having a lot of islands in the atlantic (especially the Azores, home of a major NATO air base, and Madeira) might prefer a twin-engine after all... and the EF-2000 would be a good choice also because of Spain using it.
Yes, I can understand Spain and Italy would be interested in F-35Bs, perhaps Italy more so given their more suitable carrier platform.
 

SolarisKenzo

Well-Known Member
Also, from what I know, italian navy is extremely happy about their F-35s.
Spanish navy was docked in Italy last week for several days of exercises, I guess they did some talking...
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I guess it really depends on how important naval aviation is versus FCAS investment wrt Spain. Even if FCAS somehow manages a naval version to meet French needs, Spain doesn't have a suitable naval platform which leaves VTOL as the only option.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Portuguese air force drops F-35 deal and will instead acquire a european fighter.


Eurofighter consortium sent formal price-offer to Turkey after Ankara's official request.

And now Canada start to have doubts about its F-35 acquisition. There are now plans to only accept the first batch of 16 F-35s, which are already paid, and then cancel the other 72 on order. After that they plan to search for alternatives from Europe, like the JAS39.
Canada bekijkt alternatief voor Amerikaanse straaljagers vanwege Trump
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
And now Canada start to have doubts about its F-35 acquisition. There are now plans to only accept the first batch of 16 F-35s, which are already paid, and then cancel the other 72 on order. After that they plan to search for alternatives from Europe, like the JAS39.
Canada bekijkt alternatief voor Amerikaanse straaljagers vanwege Trump
Not totally unexpected given the current and deteriorating relationship between ex-friends. Unless Gripen can be configured with a non US engine, Typhoon seems a better option, especially if we can invest into Tempest. Realistically, more than 16 F-35s are needed until an alternative plan is sorted, perhaps 32-45. Delays are not all negative, we can see how TR3 and block 4 progresses (or not). Lost revenue from the program, zero confidence our partner agreement on the F-35 program will be honoured by Trump. A really hard look at the P-8 acquisition should follow if Trump continues his BS along with other long term planned US acquisitions.
 
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