Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
I believe that the banning of military use of Antarctica is confined to Antarctica it self and not necessarily the surrounding waters It is noted that various armed ships have been in the surrounding waters , including armed icebreakers, ever since the treaty was signed.
The following is an explanation of the treaty.
It could also be argued that non signatories would not necessarily feel bound by the treaty which has a very limited number of signatories.
The following is an explanation of the treaty.
It could also be argued that non signatories would not necessarily feel bound by the treaty which has a very limited number of signatories.
Be ok as a light frigate for Antarctic use but otherwise its too slow. Also a tad on the small side and how will it handle the Southern Ocean?Perhaps this Danish design concept is sellable to the NZ electorate and Treasury, a frigate that addresses allied concerns for a contribution to defending SLOC plus should be viable for protecting NZ Antarctica interests.
OSK Design unveils new concept of Arctic frigate
Danish naval architect company OSK Design has unveiled the latest concept for an Arctic frigate.www.navaltoday.com
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Probably uncomfortable in an angry Southern Ocean situation but would a T26, T31, Constellation, or FREMM be much better?
They are larger and we are beginning to build a database of the Southern Ocean wave climate. I think it would be a matter of tweaking the hull length / width ratio to allow for the energetic Southern Ocean.
That a replacement for the Thesis class? May be a good replacement for the OPVs.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
It was shelved by the the last labour gubberment...
Shelved doesn't mean the end of it though and I suspect it will be back on the books later on... whether it will be the same as what was in the DCP 2019 is another story...
I'm not convinced that the SOPV will be back. In the context of the RFI with 9 ships in 6 classes, the RNZN is not going to be able to have niche capabilities like Manawanui or an SOPV. At best the RNZN might condense down to three classes (Combatants x 3, A Damen Crossover type vessel for Canterbury, OPV and Manawauni Replacement), plus a tanker - whether the RNZN retains an IPV capability is up for debates, given Customs past indications they would like a similar size vessel.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
I certainly hope NZGov does not attempt another multi-role patrol and sealift vessel again. That really did not work with Canterbury, and given how different and unrelated the roles are would be foolish IMO. NZ has already witnessed problems when trying to have sealift/transport vessels make transits without being properly laden and the issues this caused for the vessels and IIRC crew. It would also not make much sense to try and keep kit and vehicles, and/or sufficient ballast aboard so that a sealift/patrol vessel can have enough onboard displacement, properly balanced, so that it can conduct a patrol, particularly in some of the waters in the Southern Ocean.
If the RNZN find itself being unable to afford or manage the range of vessel classes needed to carry out what ops it wants and needs to conduct, then NZGov will need to either find the resources required, or manage their (gov't) expectations so they are more reasonable. To attempt to combine some very different roles, with divergent requirements, could once again lead to vessels which are unsuitable for some/many/all of the roles they are supposed to be tasked with.
6000 tons full load. It's quite broad for its length.
Yes, according to reports elsewhere it's aimed at replacing the Thetis class. It's 10 metres longer 3.5m wider, & a bit faster, & ice stengthened.
See DSEI 2023: OSK pitches Arctic frigate design for new Danish Navy requirement | Shephard
I find the proposed ASW version for the GIUK gap interesting, & it uses the SH Cube system, the successor to StanFlex.
There's a different picture here - Arctic Frigate - Modern Engineering Designed For Extreme Northern Operations
Just a "design concept", though. First draft . . . OSK might have to bring others in to help with detailed design.
What it says on OSK's website - Arctic frigate - modern engineering designed for extreme Northern operations
I think that broad boats can have a tendency to wallow. That won't be much fun in the Southern Ocean.
I quite like the SH Cube system because it is quite versatile and has a lot of potential.
WRT to this Arctic frigate design it will pay to keep an eye on it. I still think 23 knots is somewhat slow for what we require, given the distances we are required to operate over and who we play with.
It says 23+. Might depend on how much +.
Optimised for the Arctic might not be ideal for the waters with the longest reach in the world.
But ice strengthening could be handy. If the designers think it'd do they might offer it. I'd expect the RNZN to have a good look at the hullform, preferably on an already built ship.
Optimised for the Arctic might not be ideal for the waters with the longest reach in the world.
But ice strengthening could be handy. If the designers think it'd do they might offer it. I'd expect the RNZN to have a good look at the hullform, preferably on an already built ship.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
SOPV (or now SOPPV?) features in the recent "RFI: Industry Engagement Maritime Fleet Market Research for the Defence Capability Plan". It has its own reference as part of the "Future Fleet Characteristics" sections
Having suitable long range and endurance will be important as it will affect time on operations. Replenishment at sea opportunities may be infrequent (i.e. whilst a southern patrol may coincide with the naval tanker conducting a supply run to and from McMurdo base, the naval tanker is unlikely to be tasked with accompanying the Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol vessel for ongoing support (like it does with the naval combat vessels) due to its other demands. Plus weather and sea conditions could be factor at the time of potential rendezvous opportunities. So my thoughts are a vessel fit for purpose designed for the Southern Ocean is a more likely probability.
The Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol capabilities largely align with that of vessels undertaking "Maritime Security Operations" (i.e. patrol, eg, in the Pacific). MSO vessels are tasked to operate in benign or low threat environments and with appropriate "defensive capabilities" so presumably this applies to the Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol capability as well.
FYI the "Future Fleet Characteristics" sections are as follows (the bolded parts are the capabilities required):
2.1 Maritime Fleet Capabilities
2.2 Future Fleet Configuration
2.3 Naval Combat
2.4 Maritime Security Operations
2.5 Sealift / Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief (HADR)
2.6 Intelligence, Survellience and Reconnaissance (ISR)
2.7 Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol
2.8 Replenishment
2.9 Littoral Operation Support
2.10 Remotely Operated and Autonomous Uncrewed Assets
2.11 Personnel Considerations
2.12 Maritime Operating Environment and Endurance
2.13 Seaworthiness and Certification
2.14 Minimising Environmental impact
2.15 Through Life Support
2.16 Acquisition and Whole of Life Costs
2.17 Existing NZDF Capabilities
2.18 Existing NZDF Infrastructure
2.19 NZ Industry
Hat tip to NgatiMozart for the info recently (the forum word count prevents posting these in more detail within this post).
2.7 Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol
2.7.1 New Zealand has interests within the Southern Ocean which are protected and promoted through the Antarctic Treaty system governance framework, including by undertaking maritime monitoring and surveillance in the Ross Sea region to support implementation of CCAMLR
rules.2 The current Naval Tanker HMNZS Aotearoa has the ability to operate in the Ross Sea, although it was designed for a specific resupply mission of the Scott and McMurdo scientific research bases. For the final approaches to McMurdo base, Aotearoa requires ice breaker support.
Additional capabilities to conduct patrol operations in the Southern Ocean and Polar Region would be beneficial to meet current Government policy objectives in this area. These capabilities would need to be able to operate independently in the Ross Sea during the Antarctic summer months (October – February). It may not be practical to be able to operate over this entire period considering environmental conditions and opportunities for replenishment but patrol capabilities should aim to cover as much of this time period as possible. Specific patrol capabilities that would be an advantage are:
(a) The ability to detect, track, and record data of vessels and aircraft in this area;
(b) The ability to keep pace with vessels; and
(c) The ability to board vessels (where legally allowed).
Having suitable long range and endurance will be important as it will affect time on operations. Replenishment at sea opportunities may be infrequent (i.e. whilst a southern patrol may coincide with the naval tanker conducting a supply run to and from McMurdo base, the naval tanker is unlikely to be tasked with accompanying the Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol vessel for ongoing support (like it does with the naval combat vessels) due to its other demands. Plus weather and sea conditions could be factor at the time of potential rendezvous opportunities. So my thoughts are a vessel fit for purpose designed for the Southern Ocean is a more likely probability.
The Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol capabilities largely align with that of vessels undertaking "Maritime Security Operations" (i.e. patrol, eg, in the Pacific). MSO vessels are tasked to operate in benign or low threat environments and with appropriate "defensive capabilities" so presumably this applies to the Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol capability as well.
2.4 Maritime Security Operations
2.4.1 There are a range of maritime security operation roles undertaken by the NZDF, sometimes in collaboration with other New Zealand Government agencies. These would typically be in either benign or low threat environments, so defensive capabilities should be appropriate to operate in these environments.
2.4.2 Other capabilities that typically contribute to these roles are:
(a) The endurance for prolonged time on station to patrol a maritime area;
(b) The ability to detect, track, and keep pace with vessels; and
(c) The ability to board vessels for inspection of illegal activity.
FYI the "Future Fleet Characteristics" sections are as follows (the bolded parts are the capabilities required):
2.1 Maritime Fleet Capabilities
2.2 Future Fleet Configuration
2.3 Naval Combat
2.4 Maritime Security Operations
2.5 Sealift / Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief (HADR)
2.6 Intelligence, Survellience and Reconnaissance (ISR)
2.7 Southern Ocean & Polar Patrol
2.8 Replenishment
2.9 Littoral Operation Support
2.10 Remotely Operated and Autonomous Uncrewed Assets
2.11 Personnel Considerations
2.12 Maritime Operating Environment and Endurance
2.13 Seaworthiness and Certification
2.14 Minimising Environmental impact
2.15 Through Life Support
2.16 Acquisition and Whole of Life Costs
2.17 Existing NZDF Capabilities
2.18 Existing NZDF Infrastructure
2.19 NZ Industry
Hat tip to NgatiMozart for the info recently (the forum word count prevents posting these in more detail within this post).
Yep they would. IIRC the Iver Huitfelds are ice strengthened and given that they will be looking very closely at the AH140 I think that the mooted AH120 would meet many of the IPV / OPV replacement requirements; in the role of a corvette / light frigate. It would also offer significant commonality and compatibility with the AH140, which would be great from both a logistics and training POV. An AH120 could be the RNZNs T-31 analogue, with the AH140 being the RNZN T-26 analogue.It says 23+. Might depend on how much +.
Optimised for the Arctic might not be ideal for the waters with the longest reach in the world.
The video below states that Babcocks is looking at serious Australasian interest and I wonder if that is NZ rather than Australia. I do hope so.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
HMNZS Te Mana and Aotearoa's 5 month SE Asia deployment sees them visiting Vietnam.
e.vnexpress.net
This video shows Te Mana's hanger with a Seasprite inside. By the looks could a NH-90/NFH-90 (which is ~1m wider) actually fit inside after all?
Naval ships of New Zealand visit Vietnam - VnExpress International
Two ships of the Royal New Zealand Navy, frigate HMNZS Te Mana and sustainment vessel HMNZS Aotearoa, arrived at Saigon Port on Sunday, starting a five-day friendship visit to Vietnam.
e.vnexpress.net
This video shows Te Mana's hanger with a Seasprite inside. By the looks could a NH-90/NFH-90 (which is ~1m wider) actually fit inside after all?
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Redlands18
Well-Known Member
I have a hazy memory of someone some years ago posting on either this thread or the RAN thread, that the NH-90 will fit in the Anzac Hangars but it is a tight fit.HMNZS Te Mana and Aotearoa's 5 month SE Asia deployment sees them visiting Vietnam.
Naval ships of New Zealand visit Vietnam - VnExpress International
Two ships of the Royal New Zealand Navy, frigate HMNZS Te Mana and sustainment vessel HMNZS Aotearoa, arrived at Saigon Port on Sunday, starting a five-day friendship visit to Vietnam.
This video shows Te Mana's hanger with a Seasprite inside. By the looks could a NH-90/NFH-90 (which is ~1m wider) actually fit inside after all?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
My memory of that is not so hazy. A senior member & DefPro who unfortunately has not visited in some time commented that a NH90 could fit in an ANZAC-class frigate hangar, but "there wouldn't be enough room to swing a bee's d*ck..."
So yes, a rather tight fit it would seem.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Thanks Tod, now that you do mention it I do remember that post.
One of the problems with cold launching missiles is if the missile fails to ignite it will fall back down potentially damaging other launchers. To mitigate this problem the CAMM launchers are canted to port or starboard so the failed missile will fall clear of the launchers. I wondered if the middle row on the ANZAC frigates was to the port or starboard. A screen grab from the posted link above gives the answer. Half to starboard, half to port.HMNZS Te Mana and Aotearoa's 5 month SE Asia deployment sees them visiting Vietnam.
Naval ships of New Zealand visit Vietnam - VnExpress International
Two ships of the Royal New Zealand Navy, frigate HMNZS Te Mana and sustainment vessel HMNZS Aotearoa, arrived at Saigon Port on Sunday, starting a five-day friendship visit to Vietnam.
