RSN capabilities

[OPSSG]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580882150047772673

Brace. Brace! BRACE!! The frenemy strikes again. In 2017, Malaysia instituted an application for revision & a request for interpretation of the Court's 2008 decision & it was subsequently withdrawn by Malaysia in 2018. An application for revision cannot be made after the expiry of 10 years (i.e. May 2018).

With the Malaysian election round the corner, this is to be expected for UMNO. Once again, the Maritime Security & Response Flotilla will feature in the RSN response.

 

[ngatimozart]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580882150047772673

Brace. Brace! BRACE!! The frenemy strikes again. In 2017, Malaysia instituted an application for revision & a request for interpretation of the Court's 2008 decision & it was subsequently withdrawn by Malaysia in 2018. An application for revision cannot be made after the expiry of 10 years (i.e. May 2018).

With the Malaysian election round the corner, this is to be expected for UMNO. Once again, the Maritime Security & Response Flotilla will feature in the RSN response.

I read something that reported that your very good mate Mahathir is running again in the upcoming elections. He's apparently 97 so bit of life in the old dog yet.

 

[STURM]

With the Malaysian election round the corner, this is to be expected for UMNO.

Actually it isn't. For one even if UMNO wasn't in power there would be certain other quarters who would have relooked how the case was handled by the Malaysian side. It's an internal issue. Secondly it isn't as if this announcement is going to win any votes for UMNO or anyone else as the average voter is focused on a host of other issues.

Once again, the Maritime Security & Response Flotilla will feature in the RSN response

In what way? Malaysia has "instituted an application for revision & a request for interpretation of the Court's 2008".' It's a bureaucratic legal/court issue. Hardly anything to get overly excited about.

He's apparently 97 so bit of life in the old dog yet.

He's defending his parliamentary seat. Given how fluid things are politically there's always the chance he might lose. Slim chance but possible. All said and done; he still has a lot of influence and even voters who are not enamoured of him given him credit for certain things he has achieved but politically he's not a major factor anymore.

 

[OPSSG]

I read something that reported that your very good mate Mahathir is running again in the upcoming elections. He's apparently 97 so bit of life in the old dog yet.

1. Got to love Dr M’s staying power; but it is also a sign of weakness — his party is being decimated at every go of the ballot box.

2. If UMNO sticks to legal actions only, it’s a path to eventual failure. It’s just till after the election— which aligns with our interest. For the coming election, UMNO just needs to discredit PH, & Dr M. Some in Malaysia will say that this decision is not about Singapore — which is an entitled mentality but that is to be expected.

3. While armed hostilities between Singapore & Malaysia is unlikely, there is an ongoing communication process. The message at times could be deterrence by:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581121492707745792

(a) punishment (a quick death for a terrorist attack); or​

(b) denial (to prevent an enemy from achieving its objectives), as was done today’s open mobilisation.​

And as usual, MINDEF provides a social, meet-up opportunity for NSmen being recalled this weekend — with lunch included.

4. Dr M will tell others that the National Indian Muslim Alliance Party's (Iman) presence in Gerakan Tanah Air (GTA) would help his coalition win in the upcoming 15th General Election (GE15). GTA, established on 4 Aug 2022 and led by Parti Pejuang, has previously stated that it intends to contest 120 parliamentary seats throughout Malaysia at GE15.

5. In an uncertain political system of shifting alliances, there is only one certainty in Malaysian politics. The certainty of Dr M betraying someone at various times, as part of his divide and rule politics. People are not stupid — after Dr M’s betrayal of Anwar and DAP (now led by Anthony Loke), Dr M’s Parti Pejuang with or without GTA is no longer a key player in the upcoming elections as most Malaysians see him and his divide and conquer tactics as “past his expiry date.”

 

[STURM]

Got to love his staying power; but it is also a sign of weakness — his party is being decimated at every go of the ballot box.

It can be argued that the main purpose of his party was not to gain power/votes but to be a spoiler; to split votes.

 

[OPSSG]

Impeccable (boat 2) & Illustrious (boat 3) launched on 13 Dec 2022

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602695124307177472

1. “The partnership with Singapore is of strategic importance for Germany and thyssenkrupp,” said CEO Oliver Burkhard. “The boats launched today belong to a new, state-of-the-art generation of submarines that is truly unrivalled in the world. The technologies being applied are world-leading. This is also only possible thanks to the long-standing, trusting and successful cooperation with the Republic of Singapore.”

2. "Everything is designed with the local operating context & environment in mind," LTC Phang Chun Chieh, CO-designate of the Impeccable said. "We have designed it to dominate our local underwater arena…" so that aggressors need to bear in mind this capability LTC Phang said.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602680992271159296

3. The “Impeccable” and the “Illustrious” are the second and third boats in a series of four Type 218SG submarines ordered by the Republic of Singapore Navy.

​

(a) The PLA(N) has a continuous build strategy, which means their subs are getting better with technology inserts as these mature. Regional navies can’t remain static, if they want to survive in the face of intensifying competition in undersea warfare.​

​

(b) The methodology to detect periscopes is known as glimpse count — the PLA(N) have spent decades studying these open source, published docs and tracking Korean (Jang Bogo class and Son Won-il class submarines), Japanese, and even Indian submarines. They know how to maintain track Indian Kilo & Kalvari class (aka Scorpène class) submarines. The Chinese have mature tactics to deal with a range of submarines.​

​

(c) According to TKMS, the Type 218SG are among the most modern diesel-electric submarines in the world and feature numerous customized solutions and new technologies. They are designed with a low acoustic signature. The external air-independent propulsion system allows the boats to remain under water for a longer duration. With a length of approximately 70 meters and a displacement of around 2,000 tons, they are currently the largest submarines ever built at Marine Systems.​

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502903994057998341

4. Given that boat 3 is in the water, TKMS has made up for lost time from a small fire during testing of the 1st boat. Invincible & Impeccable will enable the Singapore navy to quickly retire 2 older Challenger class subs — RSS Conqueror (ex-HSwMS Sjölejonet) & RSS Chieftain (ex-HSwMS Sjöhunden) will be retired in the 2023-2024 period.

5. IMO, the two Archer class submarines will not be retired until all 4 Type 218SGs are delivered.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Congratulations to our Singapore members....

The Type 218SG is an enlarged and customized Type 214. What were the reasons to make it 5 meters longer than the Type 214, to store more fuel? The 214 already have AIP.
And why is it much slower, 15 kts in stead of 20kts?

 

[OPSSG]

The Type 218SG is an enlarged and customized Type 214. What were the reasons to make it 5 meters longer than the Type 214, to store more fuel? The 214 already have AIP.

1. Thankfully, DSTA found great partners — TKMS & ATLAS ELEKTRONIK to create bespoke software & hardware systems for the fully digitally designed Type 218SG. The difference in length due to different mission requirements. These include:

​

(a) O&M costs management — the need for cost savings associated with lesser/smaller crew per shift (28 crew in operating in shifts) — to perform the same baseline mission. DSTA developed advanced systems such as data analytics and decision support engines, which will enable the sub to operate with less crew. There are also enough bunks for 30+ people;​

​

(b) human factors engineering — no hot bunking, every crew gets their own bed (with airline standard inflight entertainment system), larger living space, and additional showering and toilet cubicles. This is because duration of Type 218SG patrols are 50% longer — they can operate longer without resupply for bunkers, O2 & the hydroxide compound to generate H for the AIP fuel cell; and​

​

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602928630954270720

(c) flex space — to enable the sub to carry NDU teams, more torpedoes, UUVs, mines & other capabilities. A TKMS source told IHS Jane's that the Type 218SG is developed from the Type 214 design, although the new submarine has been extended in length to accommodate additional mission systems as well as to support future upgradability.​

And why is it much slower, 15 kts in stead of 20kts?

2. Haha… it says at least 15 kts, not it’s actual submerged speed. The faster you go above 12 kts, the more self noise a submarine makes — it’s a waste of the huge flank array’s capabilities if it is not more silent.

3. The Singapore Navy claims the Endurance class is 6,000 tons but the Thai Navy claims theirs is 7,600 tons — habitual understating of actual capability.

 

[Joe Black]

Congratulations to our Singapore members....

The Type 218SG is an enlarged and customized Type 214. What were the reasons to make it 5 meters longer than the Type 214, to store more fuel? The 214 already have AIP.
And why is it much slower, 15 kts in stead of 20kts?

RSN never published any true speed. It is a common practice for them to understate their true capabilities, so >15kt could mean 20kts or 23kts, who knows. BTW, max underwater dash speed for SSK is not usually the most important thing in most operational scenario, it becomes useful when you are trying to escape from an inbound torpedo.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

So this new Multi-role Combat Vessel is actually a multi-purpose destroyer with the displacement of a full-grown cruiser, based on the Odense Absolon class.

Singapore's DSTA taps Saab for MRCV design - Naval News

Singapore’s DSTA and Saab will co-develop and design the Republic of Singapore Navy’s new Multi-Role Combat Vessel (MRCV)

www.navalnews.com

 

[Redlands18]

So this new Multi-role Combat Vessel is actually a multi-purpose destroyer with the displacement of a full-grown cruiser, based on the Odense Absolon class.

Singapore's DSTA taps Saab for MRCV design - Naval News

Singapore’s DSTA and Saab will co-develop and design the Republic of Singapore Navy’s new Multi-Role Combat Vessel (MRCV)

www.navalnews.com

That would be a massive re-design to get a Huitfeldt/Absalon to 10,000t.

 

[John Fedup]

That would be a massive re-design to get a Huitfeldt/Absalon to 10,000t.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Odense Marine Design has been toying with a modified and larger Absalon vessel for years so this re-design may not take an excessive amount of time.

 

[Vivendi]

Interesting that they chose to work with Saab Kockums on this MRCV design -- I wonder why?

 

[swerve]

Well, OMT is just a design office, while SAAB Kockums can actually do physical engineering & shipbuilding. If Singapore wants its people to learn how to build fighting ships incorporating new technology, & get experience in designing them, it could be advantageous to work with firms which can do both sides of it. I don't know why SAAB rather than anyone else, but perhaps they liked OMT's basic design & skills, & needed someone willing & able to work with OMT. Some firms might want to do it all themselves. Maybe OMT's attitude (I've heard they're very cooperative with customers wishes) was a factor.

The article mentions composite structures. SAAB's been doing them a long time. The addendum to the article, giving an ST Engineering press release dated today, says ST Engineering has been awarded a contract for detailed design & construction.

 

[ngatimozart]

That would be a massive re-design to get a Huitfeldt/Absalon to 10,000t.

Not necessarily. The Ivers / Absalon has a current displacement of around 6,500 tonnes. If they insert a plug into the hull then it is possible for them to increase the full load displacement to 10,000 tonnes. They would of course have to increase the horsepower of the diesel engines, and currently the Absalon have two compared to the Ivers four. Maybe they will take the opportunity of going to a DE drive instead of CODAD as it is at the moment.

 

[Vivendi]

Well, OMT is just a design office, while SAAB Kockums can actually do physical engineering & shipbuilding. If Singapore wants its people to learn how to build fighting ships incorporating new technology, & get experience in designing them, it could be advantageous to work with firms which can do both sides of it. I don't know why SAAB rather than anyone else, but perhaps they liked OMT's basic design & skills, & needed someone willing & able to work with OMT. Some firms might want to do it all themselves. Maybe OMT's attitude (I've heard they're very cooperative with customers wishes) was a factor.

The article mentions composite structures. SAAB's been doing them a long time. The addendum to the article, giving an ST Engineering press release dated today, says ST Engineering has been awarded a contract for detailed design & construction.

In addition to having worked with composite structures I noticed just now that Saab Kockums was also involved in the design of the Independence class for Singapore, I guess Singapore were not too displeased with the experience? Independence class Littoral Mission Vessel - Singapore Navy (seaforces.org)

Nevertheless interesting, to my knowledge Saab has never been involved with such a large vessel before. I hope they will successful.

 

[swerve]

Kockums built ships bigger than that at Malmö. & I think the Karlskrona shipyard also built ships that size. Those yards are now owned by SAAB. But those ships were built a long time ago, & the current workforce wasn't involved.

I think it'll be a question of each firm bringing different skills to the table. OMT may still have people around who worked on very big ships for Mærsk at Odense Staalskibsværft before OMT was spun off in 2010, but I don't think that matters. What does is that they can design a 6500 ton warship good enough for the Danish & Polish navies & the RN (& possibly the Indonesian navy, but I'll wait until the ships are building to be sure). If they can do that they should be able to design a 50% bigger ship, with SAAB providing specialist expertise in composite structures & perhaps other areas, & ST Engineering providing skilled people to do detailed design. Note that ST has built 8500 ton LPDs.

I don't see the size as being a problem. It's not a massive leap.

 

[koxinga]

While navalnews / Xavier Vavasseur has presumbly done his groundwork to verify this sources, I would prefer to wait and see more information on the exact configuration and tonnage.

Given the presumed heavy use of composites (which would reduce topweight) which Saab is famed for, where is the 10,000 ton coming from? The Thales SeaFIRE MFR does not seem significantly larger than American SPY-6.

It is also interesting that RSN did not select a design from Naval Group (e.g enlarged FTI?), given the time and expense that was spent on Project Delta/Formidable class and having STE build 5 out of 6 of them in the local shipyard.

 

[swerve]

FTI/FDI is significantly smaller. 10,000 tons (if true) would be a more than doubling of displacement, rather than 50% or so, That could be a stretch too far. I think FREMM or Horizon would be better Naval Group base designs for the size.

The French are putting Sea Fire on FDI (Amiral Ronarc'h is in the water with it - First Look: New French Frigate with her PSIM Integrated Mast - Naval News), so it certainly doesn't need a 10,000 ton ship. A bigger ship enables mounting the arrays higher, of course.

 

[Meriv90]

And for what I understood NG kinda dropped(correct me if I'm wrong) the FREMM and Horizon. Or at least I haven't seen derivative designs from them like Horizon->DDX(10k+) or the FREMM ITA -> FREMM EVO