Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[vonnoobie]

With the Collins class life extension under discussion it really is a matter of how far they plan to go with them. With figures ranging from $3.5 through to $15 billion it could be anything from new engine and a service through to a complete restoration and upgrade effectively zero hour the boats giving them up to 20+ more years of life. Components can be replaced and as a benefit some of those could be the same or early examples of what will go into the attack class giving industry in some parts a kick start on the learning curve which could flow into further delays on the attack class. As for the hull and internal frame I expect corrosion and stress fractures to be the biggest issue? Which ASC is already working with tech to midigate or eliminate such issues. Tech has come a long way in last few decades so safely. So rather then worrying about the life extension let's think about how we can make it work to our benefit with the attack class.

 

[hauritz]

I guess you could use the Collins class as a testbed for some of the systems that may be used in the Attack Class. It is also possible that these systems could be recycled into the attack class which could be a cost-saving measure.

 

[aussienscale]

With the Collins class life extension under discussion it really is a matter of how far they plan to go with them. With figures ranging from $3.5 through to $15 billion it could be anything from new engine and a service through to a complete restoration and upgrade effectively zero hour the boats giving them up to 20+ more years of life. Components can be replaced and as a benefit some of those could be the same or early examples of what will go into the attack class giving industry in some parts a kick start on the learning curve which could flow into further delays on the attack class. As for the hull and internal frame I expect corrosion and stress fractures to be the biggest issue? Which ASC is already working with tech to midigate or eliminate such issues. Tech has come a long way in last few decades so safely. So rather then worrying about the life extension let's think about how we can make it work to our benefit with the attack class.

Do you have a reference for that please ? would like to have a read, would love to know how someone thinks you can zero a pressure hull along with the other claims ?

Cheers

 

[vonnoobie]

Do you have a reference for that please ? would like to have a read, would love to know how someone thinks you can zero a pressure hull along with the other claims ?

Cheers

To be honest it was me spit balling some what thinking of how far we could use cold spray technology. Let me clarify nothing I stated in my previous post is from any official or unofficial source but simply me thinking out of the box based around current knowledge. It is my own personal opinion that current and in development systems and knowledge will allow us to extend the lives far more safely then in the past and it was my own spit balling about using the life extension to kick start the use of tech/industry that will go into the attack class. I failed to make that clear for that I apologise. That being said if there is anything specifically wrong with my views I would be happy to hear, it's the only way we learn

 

[CJR]

Do you have a reference for that please ? would like to have a read, would love to know how someone thinks you can zero a pressure hull along with the other claims ?

Cheers

Zero time a pressure hull? There's the USS Constellation/USS Puritan option... Jack up the ship's bell and name plate, build new hull underneath...

 

[hauritz]

Australia is investigating "Cold Spray" technology for its subs. While this technology seems like it is mostly intended for use at sea I can see it being of use when it comes to restoring the hulls of its ageing sub fleet. It is a technique that is less likely to weaken cold-rolled steel than conventional welding methods.

How a Supersonic Metal Spray Could Make Subs Even Deadlier

“Cold spray” technology can speed repairs on submarines, keeping them at sea instead of the shipyard.

www.popularmechanics.com

Maybe not enough to zero hour a hull but perhaps it might extend the life of the hulls by a decade or so.

 

[vonnoobie]

Australia is investigating "Cold Spray" technology for its subs. While this technology seems like it is mostly intended for use at sea I can see it being of use when it comes to restoring the hulls of its ageing sub fleet. It is a technique that is less likely to weaken cold-rolled steel than conventional welding methods.

How a Supersonic Metal Spray Could Make Subs Even Deadlier

“Cold spray” technology can speed repairs on submarines, keeping them at sea instead of the shipyard.

www.popularmechanics.com

Maybe not enough to zero hour a hull but perhaps it might extend the life of the hulls by a decade or so.

We aren't so much as researching it as adapting it. The tech for cold spray has been around for decades with some of the US Navy yards using it for ship maintenance. What we are doing rather is trying to shrink it down to a more man portable unit for use on submarines. To me it seems to be one of those technologies that has a lot of potential but has had no real push to expand it beyond what it is already used for. If fully developed into portable units it could become a major enabler for all branches of the ADF both for home use and deployment. Rather then waiting for replacement parts or having to stockpile large amounts of parts at a high cost we could "potentially" just fix the broken parts at a lower cost and at times quicker turn around. Makes one wonder what other tech developments are out there just waiting to be utilised to their possible full potential.

 

[oldsig127]

Makes one wonder what other tech developments are out there just waiting to be utilised to their possible full potential.

Read the latest issue of APDR; in particular the section on page 8 dealing with the R&D being conducted to develop the Attack class combat system and simultaneously build R&D capacity and linkages between Defence, the Universities and Industry.

All that with an eye to using the fruits of the development process in the Attack class specifically but also to bulk up our national capacity for leading edge technological development into the future. This is the sort of stuff that most of the naysayers won't look at, but which potentially benefit the whole country by a lot more than the amount we'd save by buying something that won't do what we want to save a few bob.

https://venturaapdr.partica.online/apdr/apdr-june-2020/flipbook/8/

oldsig

 

[Stampede]

A small article today from APDR re Phalanx upgrade..

Upgraded Phalanx weapon system enters service | APDR

The Royal Australian Navy’s upgraded Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) has reached a major milestone by achieving initial operating capability.

asiapacificdefencereporter.com

Not too much on new information, but suggests some forward momentum re the Phalanx upgrade entering service with the fleet.
Will watch with interest.


Regards S

 

[DDG38]

A small article today from APDR re Phalanx upgrade..

Upgraded Phalanx weapon system enters service | APDR

The Royal Australian Navy’s upgraded Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) has reached a major milestone by achieving initial operating capability.

asiapacificdefencereporter.com

Not too much on new information, but suggests some forward momentum re the Phalanx upgrade entering service with the fleet.
Will watch with interest.

I noted the upgraded CIWS when I saw her at sea commissioning (what a great idea BTW, hope they do more of them in the future), good to see them being rolled out. Doesn't mitigate the hypersonic ASM threat but something is better than nothing. Can't wait for an open day to get a look over the platform, or hopefully a work related look over at some point.

 

[ASSAIL]

I noted the upgraded CIWS when I saw her at sea commissioning (what a great idea BTW, hope they do more of them in the future), good to see them being rolled out. Doesn't mitigate the hypersonic ASM threat but something is better than nothing. Can't wait for an open day to get a look over the platform, or hopefully a work related look over at some point.

Does the RAN continue to use lead ammo in Phalanx and is the USN still using depleted uranium?

 

[DDG38]

Does the RAN continue to use lead ammo in Phalanx and is the USN still using depleted uranium?

AFAIK the RAN has always used lead ammo for Phalanx (definitely did when I deployed on HMAS Melbourne in 02), and I believe (but happy to be proven wrong) that the USN shifted from DPU rounds to a tungsten AP round in the 90s sometime.

 

[Mark_Evans]

AFAIK the RAN has always used lead ammo for Phalanx (definitely did when I deployed on HMAS Melbourne in 02), and I believe (but happy to be proven wrong) that the USN shifted from DPU rounds to a tungsten AP round in the 90s sometime.

1988 according this
The original Mark 149-2 projectile was a depleted-uranium sub-caliber penetrator. In 1988, the Navy switched to the Mark 149-4 which uses a tungsten penetrator.

USA 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

 

[Volkodav]

This came up in the naval propulsion thread but I thought I'd raise it here where it belongs. About ~5yrs ago, GF was very clear about the problems he saw with pursuing the French option for SEA1000:

At the time he expressed a clear preference for option J. Now, I realise the silent service is true to its name, and much of the relevant info is likely to be a well guarded secret, but is anyone aware of any information that has come to light since then as to why we went with the Shortfin Barracuda? While I am hopeful the Attack class will turn out to be great submarines, I am more than a little concerned by how long it is likely to be before they start to deliver actual capability.

When you factor in the inevitable delays associated with putting what is (I take it) a green fields design in the water, that capability may not begin to arrive for another 20 years(!). That is an awfully long time in the light of the PLAN's current rapid expansion & modernisation and I do wonder if a less ambitious Japanese design might have allowed us to put more boats in the water sooner?

When studied in detail both the German and Japanese proposals were found to be inferior to the French proposal, they were even found to be lacking in some areas to the current in service Collins Class.

The Collins is very much a success story, its only real failing was not doing a continuous build of progressively improved batches. In terms of operating very long range conventional subs with very low discretion rates, the RAN are in the top tier, they really know their stuff. It was their requirements that drove the design on the Collins Class and it is their requirements driving the design of the Attacks, there will be issues with schedule and cost, there will be technical issues, there will be sniping from the media and politicians will be politicians and point score, but the RAN will get the capability they require.

 

[KiwiRob]

Times are changing wrt women's strength and conditioning too. 10-15 years ago I worked in the fitness industry and there was always a pretty strong male domination of the free weights/strength training areas of most gyms. Not so today - a lot of young women are getting heavily involved in it and are able to reach a level of overall physical strength that would have been extremely rare even a decade ago.

IMO that's due to the emergence of Crossfit, where I live now 60% of the people in the box I go to are female, when I fist started lifting as a teenager there were no women in the freeweights area. I knees and shoulders are toast now, so sometimes I feel a bit crap when a 20 year old girl is out squatting or out pressing me.

 

[OldTex]

It has been a long time coming but finally the RAN's entire amphibious group is exercising together according to an article in Naval News. The training in the EXA includes HMAS Hobart and HMAS Stuart.

 

[ngatimozart]

IMO that's due to the emergence of Crossfit, where I live now 60% of the people in the box I go to are female, when I fist started lifting as a teenager there were no women in the freeweights area. I knees and shoulders are toast now, so sometimes I feel a bit crap when a 20 year old girl is out squatting or out pressing me.

Look at it this way, when that 20 year old sheila reaches your age and her knees and shoulders are buggered, she'll be feeling the same when she sees some 20 year old kid out lifting her.

 

[KiwiRob]

Look at it this way, when that 20 year old sheila reaches your age and her knees and shoulders are buggered, she'll be feeling the same when she sees some 20 year old kid out lifting her.

My 15 year old son is also getting pretty close, by the time he's 16 he will out left today's me, but he's still got a way to go before he's as strong at 30's me.

 

[Stampede]

When studied in detail both the German and Japanese proposals were found to be inferior to the French proposal, they were even found to be lacking in some areas to the current in service Collins Class.

The Collins is very much a success story, its only real failing was not doing a continuous build of progressively improved batches. In terms of operating very long range conventional subs with very low discretion rates, the RAN are in the top tier, they really know their stuff. It was their requirements that drove the design on the Collins Class and it is their requirements driving the design of the Attacks, there will be issues with schedule and cost, there will be technical issues, there will be sniping from the media and politicians will be politicians and point score, but the RAN will get the capability they require.

Volk, I'm one who has concerns with the project, but I appreciate your positive comment and genuinely trust I'm wrong on all levels.

All success to SEA 1000.


Regards S

 

[Stampede]

It has been a long time coming but finally the RAN's entire amphibious group is exercising together according to an article in Naval News. The training in the EXA includes HMAS Hobart and HMAS Stuart.

There is a great series of pic's in the defence web site of this Exercise.

Worth a look



Regards S

Appreciate the advise but a link would be useful. Otherwise it is very much a one liner!

Alexsa