Midtguardian Defence Forces

[Bozoo1]

Thanks for the suggestion, I will do just that and post on the military models.

I'll also try to post the link to some pictures here. Meanwhile some pictures can be found on facebook.com by searching for Midtguardia Defence system group. There is one picture of the gunboat on order, and one of a squadron from the armoured regiment. The main pictures are from the Midtguardian airforce base, Anki, with pictures from the infrastructure as well as aircraft. The comments are in English for your benefit.

 

[Feanor]

T be honest purchasing the EF makes little sense. Why not the Gripen? Or if you're looking for a purchase that isn't dependent on Norway or Sweden, get some refurbished F-16s or even refurbished Fulcrums. Those could come very very cheap. And typically, if handled well, will cost less to operate in the long run, then the large and sophisticated EF.

 

[Bozoo1]

Midtguardia is an imagined country situated between Norway and Sweden on their southernmost borders. The country is surrounded by hills on three sides with the Skagerak sea on the fourth side. there is a large river and a substantial archipelagos with numerous small and uninhabited islands.

The country was carved out by a stubborn expeditionary force during the end of the napoleonic wars, preferring to stay put where they were in stead of heading home to certain death or dishonour after treacherous treatment by their king. Neither Norway nor Sweden had enough military forces to evict the well trained and equipped corps and they stayed, gradually creating their own little country.
Neither Norway nor Sweden have ever recognized the country, but there has never been an all out attack either, and following some skirmishes by which the Midtguardians were victorious, an uneasy peace has reigned.

The leading citizens of Midtguardia had close ties to both the English and German aristocracy and had large financial resources at their disposal. The Midtguardians have a long lasting and strong military tradition whereby the NCO class has been especially well established and the country as a whole are very aware that their existence depend upon a viable military where more or less every able bodied citizen, man an woman alike, have a role in defending the country.

The well equipped defence forces as well as astute political maneuvering saw Midtguardia through both world wars as neutrals, although they did provide a partially secure haven for jews during most of the war, laying the foundations for their role as a financial center today.

The country has 1,200.000 citizens, where nearly 70 % live in the capitol, Gustavsberg. Midtguardias financial rescources come mainly from their large international merchant fleet, substantial ownership of foreign companies, proceeds from the financial district, some oil rescources, fisheries as well as mining industry producing steel and aluminum together with a well established hi-tech industry.

The question we are concerned with here is the continuing problem of defense. The Midtguardian Defense Forces are organized with an army, navy and airforce as well as a home guard and a civil defense force.

The simulation is based on scale H0 modelling (1:87). All military units are fully represented in H0 scale models, the demand of scale very strict so that 1:72 and 1:100 models are fully out of the question. This creates a number of problems of availability as especially ships and airplanes are difficult to come by. The budgetary problems normally encountered by any real country is simulated by the reallife budgetary problems governing the aquesition of models and the production of these.

This thread is therefore related to building a functioning military system with H0 scale models for all units involved and is therefore more concerned with the real interoperability of the modeled systems and scale of numbers then with super detailing, even though we to some extent concern ourselves also with this.

All feedback and contributions as to the viability of the Midtguardian defense forces are welcomed.

The organization is as follows:

Army:

1 armored Brigade with following subunits:

1 Brigade HQ
4 armored sqdr. each 24 M1 Abrahms
1 mech infantry sqdr M 2 Bradleys
1 arty battery M 109
1 air def. sqdr. Gepard
1 combat support sqdr.
1 supply sqdr
1 maint sqdr

1 motorized infantry brigade with subunits:

4 motorized infantry batallions
1 Brigade HQ
1 light arty battery
1 antitank coy
1 Fibua coy
1 supply and maintenance Bn

There is a divisional HQ with the following divisional units in addition to the above mentioned main maneuver units:

1. Artillery Bn, - LARS, MLRS, M 40, M 109, M 110
1. Air defence Bn, - Chapparal, Gepard, Roland, Avenger
1 Engineer Bn - minelayers/clearing, bridging, demolition, construction, combat eng
1. Signals BN, Ptarmigan, Eloka, RDF, Elint, Sigint,
1. Recce Bn, Lynx, Me 105 helicopters, UAVs, M 551
1 Transport Bn
1. Maintenance Bn
1 Field hospital w/ ambulance Coy
1 MP Bn
1 Specops Coy

There are some divisional maneuver units;

1 independent mech inf. Coy - M113, M106, M 41
1 div. armored reserve, Leopard 1A4, Marder
1 Rapid deployment force Leopard 1A3/M60
1 Mountain Coy

Airforce:

12 UH1-D Gunships, 30 UH1D transports, 5 Me 105 Recce, 12 AH64 D Apache, 2 CH 53, 13 AH1W, 3 Eurocopter 135 (VIP flight), 12 F 4 G Phantom, 3 RF 4 Phantom, 12 Eurofighters, 1 A10.

24 Eurofighters and 11 A-10s will be bought., as well as 3 Airbus 400M. Considering EC2 Hawkeyes, Rivet Joint, more CH 53's, C160 Transall (with tanker capability), another 6 Apaches

Navy:

5 Storm class missile gunboats
1 LCU

Considering 2 frigates, 6 SSK subs, more landing craft, minelayers and sweepers

This is just an overview. Would appreciate any input.

 

[Bozoo1]

T be honest purchasing the EF makes little sense. Why not the Gripen? Or if you're looking for a purchase that isn't dependent on Norway or Sweden, get some refurbished F-16s or even refurbished Fulcrums. Those could come very very cheap. And typically, if handled well, will cost less to operate in the long run, then the large and sophisticated EF.

I need a modern air defense fighter as this is my main worry. I have managed to buy 12 machines and hope to get another 24 giving me 36 fighters, and thus stopping the upgrade of my F 4s. I'll use these as as maritime strike aircraft and for Wild Weasel duties. I can't get Gripens as the Swedes hate my guts and availiable F 16s are old and require major maintenance work for every flight hour.

And again - there just aint no F 16's around in my scale.

 

[Feanor]

New-build F-16s are available. After refurbishing, if it's a major purchase, you can get them in very good condition and maintenance won't be a major issue. Finally the used and refurbished Fulcrum market is still huge. And a whole lot cheaper then a new EF.

Also, just to give an idea, the Malaysian airforce has under 30 fighter jets....

Again the EF, a big ticket item, makes little sense. No F-16s for your scale? What scale models do you use? Just curious.

 

[Feanor]

So uh... some pictures?

 

[matthew22081991]

At the moment we are upgrading the airforce transitioning from F 4 to Eurofigthers.

That's quite a leap in capability.

I can't get Gripens as the Swedes hate my guts.

Why? I always took them as such friendly people

The comments are in English for your benefit.

Don't get any ideas about making us speak Mitguardian in the comments, I approve of English entirely!!!

 

[Bozoo1]

New-build F-16s are available. After refurbishing, if it's a major purchase, you can get them in very good condition and maintenance won't be a major issue. Finally the used and refurbished Fulcrum market is still huge. And a whole lot cheaper then a new EF.

Also, just to give an idea, the Malaysian airforce has under 30 fighter jets....

Again the EF, a big ticket item, makes little sense. No F-16s for your scale? What scale models do you use? Just curious.

The scale is H0, that is 1:87, which is the universal scale for model railroads. The model railroad that I started up with 49 years ago is what Midtguardia sprang out of, which means that there is en entire civilian infrastructure as well, specifically downtown Gustavsberg, in addition to the defense forces.

The fact is, the only jets that are available are the F 4, the A 10, the EF and the F 104, and even those very difficult to come by. The EFs are no longer on the market and there was therefore run a production line specifically for me.

I do see your point about the number of aircraft though. I know Austria bought just 15 EFs. Midtguardias problem though is that both Sweden and Norway wants their territory back and I have to have sufficient forces to discourage any rash decisions. The 12 EFs already in my inventory will be enough for air policing, but hopelessly outmatched by Norways 50+ F 16s and Swedens 120+ Gripens. Obviously, I could never hope to match this, but a combination of 36 EF's and a possible future Patriot battery (hugely expensive in H0 scale) might make Midtguardias adversaries think twice.

 

[Bozoo1]

That's quite a leap in capability.



Why? I always took them as such friendly people



Don't get any ideas about making us speak Mitguardian in the comments, I approve of English entirely!!!

Yes I know, it will be quite the challenge to make the world speak Mitdguardian. Take a look at the Midtguardia thread in Military Models if your interested, where the discussions may be more appropriate regarding the forum topic

 

[Bozoo1]

So uh... some pictures?

Look at Welcome to Facebook | Facebook, search for Midtguardia on groups. There are some pictures, mainly of the air force base. I will try to create a link, but I don't know how

 

[Bozoo1]

I tried the link. it carries you to my facebook wall. Just write Midtguardia in search box in the upper right hand corner end you're in on the pictures.

 

[matthew22081991]

I tried the link. it carries you to my facebook wall. Just write Midtguardia in search box in the upper right hand corner end you're in on the pictures.

I can't find it, I just get people called Midtgaard and Mitgoord etc. Are you going to upload the pictures to here?

 

[regstrup]

I can't find it, I just get people called Midtgaard and Mitgoord etc. Are you going to upload the pictures to here?

Here is a LINK for the group on Facebook.

 

[Feanor]

It's just that this was the photos and videos forum so I was interested in seeing some photos. Thanks for the link.

 

[OPSSG]

Bozoo1, fantastic. I've copied two pixs from your facebook page. Can't wait for more pixs.

Here we see a two ship flight of F4G's from 215 Squadron taxiing from their squadron area on their way to the fighter standby apron to relieve the current 15 min. standby flight.

In the background we can see a couple of hardened shelters for the fighter jets. On the left hand side we can see a 1. line maintenance hangar under construction and behind this one can get a glimpse of a CH 53 Super Stallion visiting from the 207 Sq.

On the right you can see the squadron area for the 202 helicopter squadron, operating UH1-D gunships. In the foreground the squadron operations building containing crew ready room, operations room, planning and admin for the squadron. Behind this there is the first line maintenance hangar belonging to the squadron. On the left you can see part of the squadron area for 215 fighter squadron. Two machines taxiing out heading for the standby apron. In the back there is a third machine on the way to runway heading out for a training mission. Behind the CH 53 Super Stallion you can see the base commanders Cessna 172 private plane parked on the grass

 

[Bozoo]

Bozoo's back. Due to relocation, I've not had time for this forum the last 18 months.

But the Midtguardian navy has not been idle.

A total of 7 ships have been aquired during this period, all of which have been produced to exactly 1:87 scale by a Vietnamese model shipyard, the final two ships to museum quality standards.

The Midtguardian Navy took delivery of five gun/missile boats of the Norwegian "Storm" class in august 2010. These boats are equipped with one 76 mm Oto Melara rapid fire main gun, a Bofors 40 mm L 70 AA gun and 6 launchers for Penguin II ASMs. At the same time, the ex US coats guard cutter and the Vosper torpedo boat was decommisioned and scrapped.

The Midtguardian Navy yard is busy producing a transport/floating dock of indeginous desing, able to accomodate the "Storm" class boats. Due to this, the planned production of the Ula class coastal subs has been postponed.

A week ago the Midtguardian Navy took delivery of two brand new frigates of the norwegian "Oslo" class. These ships are equipped with two twin 3" gun towers, a Sea Sparrow launcher, a vertical launcher for "Terne" Anti sub missiles, two triple torpedo launchers, depth charge lanunchers and 6 launchers for penguin II ASMs. A program for mounting CIWS is under way.

In addition, the Navy has placed an order for a "Nordkapp" class coast guard ship with helicopter facilities. Pictures will follow as soon as I figure out how.

 

[Bozoo2]

Bozoo is back. Again. This time as Bozoo2. With News from Midtguardia. Midtguardia is an imagined country partly represented in H0 scale. I am here to discuss the Midtguardian Defence Forces, forces fully represented by scale H0 models, currently approximately 3500 models, organized into functioning units. I am therefore interested in all aspects of military knowledge.

It's been 10 years since last time. In the mean time the MDF has evolved and matured to such an extent that the original geografical location of the imagined country is no longer viable and this has now, magically, changed to the Norwegian county of Vestfold.

The MDF is now organized into two divisions. First division is a full blown combat division with 20 batallions ranging from the singel HQ Bn to the eight infantry Bn's of which four are fully motorized. The first division has approx 12000 personell (which are not represented in model) and 2500 vehicles - all present and accounted for. It comprises Bn's of Tank, Artillery, Air Defence, Engineer,Transport, Maintenance, Signals, Recce, Medical and MP support capabilities.

The second Division is not a fully blown combat division, but a largely administrative unit organizing miscallaneus army units. The main combat units in the second division are the Armoured Brigade, featuring 108 M 1 Abrahms MBTs and appropriate support units, the Army Aviation Bn, medium and heavy Field hospitals, Special Ops, Logistics Bn, Military Intel Bn as well as a number of smaller units.

The MDF Airforce currently operates 55 fighter jets with another 24 under construction, as well as the MDFs heavy helicopters with appropriate ground support. The Navy consists of two frigates of the Oslo class, one anti submarine vessel of the Nordkapp class and one flagship of the Svalbard class as well as five missile boats of the Storm class in addition to a floating dock and a smattering of smaller craft.

Now, a question for the moderators. I would like to present the MDF in for the forum. Initially, the correct forum would seem to be the models forum, as this is what the MDF actually is. Presenting this under the Models forum, does, on the other hand, defeat the real reason why I am here, namely to elicit comments and suggestions as to the MDF TO&E from the very knowledgeable participants on this site, thus aiding in the development of the Mitguardian Defence Forces. The Models forum is mainly engaged in superdetailing of individual vehicles and seems to incur the interest of a very limited following, none of whom are concerned with the organization, logistics and operability of military forces as such.

As I do not wish to defy the rules and post off topic without permission I would appreciate recommendations from the moderator as to how to solve this conundrum.

Special greetings to OPSSG and Feanor.

Bozoo

 

[Bozoo2]

Thank you OPSSG.

I will now begin to update the information on the Midtguardian Defence Forces in this thread.

There has been a significant Development in the MDF since last time I was here. I will begin With the MDF Air Force.

Ten years ago, the air force ws a very rudimentary organization with 12 F 4 G fighters as the only jets in the inventory. I was origionally contemplating equipping these with the AIM 54 Phoenix missile to utilize the F 4's sturdy airframe as firing platforms for the standoff missile. Due to the response from Defence Talk this idea was scrapped as the Phoenix missile was out of production and the corresponing radar did not fit behind the F 4's nose cone, and startet work on coverting to AIM 120 Amraams.

Since then more fighters have come available in the H0 scale and the MDF has now converted to Eurofighter Typhhon II. The MDF now operates two
complete squadrons of 12 Typhoons, one of which is Swing Role (can change role from air defence to attack during flight). A third squadron of twelve
is under establisment and the final count is set to four squadrons of twelve fighters. All aircraft have been bought and new fighters are beeing buildt
as time allows. A three squadron force is expected to be operational within the end of the year. The final twelve will take longer to come on line.

In addition to the operational squadrons, the air force pilot training has four two seater versions for advanced jet training. The air force pilot training school traines basic flight with its four Cessna 172 and four Piper Cherokee PA 28, but lack jet trainers, which must therefore be done abroad. Six light jet trainers are quite high on the air force priority list, thus enabling all pilot training to be done in Midtguardia. I am considering Alfa Jets.

The air force academy also trains all helicopter pilots, using the UH 1 D for basic flight school. The air force has six UH 1 Ds for this purpose, as the
bulk of the UH 1 Ds belong to Army Aviation. Army aviation squadrons are co-localized with the Air Force on the two Air force airbases, Anki and Bassen, but are operationally independant of the Air Force. Training for advanced helicopter types as the AH 1 Cobras and the AH 64 Apaches take place in the Army Aviaition squadrons.

Apart from the six UH 1 Ds used for basic flight school, the Air Force operates four Eurocopter EC 135 helicopters in the VIP transport role as well as
one complete squadron of 12 CH 53 E heavy transports. The air force also operates one MH 53 J Pave low helicopter in the combat air rescue role. A second MH 53 J is under construction as we speak. A final UH 1 D rescue helicopter in orange livery is permanently stationed at the air force base
Anki as a rescue helicopter also operated by the air force.

The Air force also has the maintenance for the currently two operational NH 90 Maritime helicopters operated by the navy flying out of the ASW vessel MNS (Midtguardian Navy Ship) Frigg, a Nordkapp class ship configured as a ASW ship in the Midtguardian navy. Unfortunately only two of
the contracted six MH 90s have been delivered.

All other helicopters belong to Army Aviation and are a part of 2. division. These are the UH 1 D's, the Apaches, Cobras and BeBöBl Sp 105.

The three P 38 Lightnings of WWII vintage flying ELINT operations have been retired and replaced in the ELINT wing by two F 4 G's following the replacement of the F 4's by the Typhoon II's as fighters. The three RF 4 G recon birds are still going strong in their original role. Of the remainder of the 12 ship F 4 squadron four airframes have been converted to tankers, utilizing the F 4's load capacity to allow at least some degree of in flight refueling for the Typhoons allowing assistance when retreiving fighters approaching bingo fuel.

The final six airframes have been converted to maritime strike craft carrying Exocet sea skimming anti ship missiles.

The Air Force operates from two fixed Air Force bases, the MAFB (Midtguardian Air Force Base) Anki and MAFB Bassen. The MAFB Anki is partially
represented in H0 with a module based exibition. The two latest modules added to the set up is the base garrison with barracks housing two companies of the four company close defence garrison. The set up includes barracks, garages, depots, parade ground, firing range, sports buiding,
euducationa building, vehicle maintenance shop, mess building, admin building, ammo depots, fuel dump as well as admin and officers quarters with adjacent housing for married officers. In case of emergency, the final two companies of the garrison will be mobelized and quartered in tents on the football field.

The garrison includes an armoured platoon with six obsolecent M 60 MBTs and six Marder IFVs plus four Roland air defence systems mounted on Marders.

Finally the ground support unit is fully mobile and able to relocate to pre designated motorway runways to avoid the risks of the static location.

I will try to get some pictures going as soon as possible.

I beleive the Midtguardian Air force in its current configuration is a force to be reconned with. The Air Force is a part of a complete IADS system with two fixed radar sites as well as a mobile, tactical radar system with four mobile search and control radars of the AN/TPS 74 type, each giving a 240
nautical mile coverage and connected to the Air Force Sector Operation Center (SOC) by way of the Ptarmigan II MSE and redundant direct communication to tactical SOC by line of sight microwave communication.

The mobile radars and the tactical SOC are a part of 1. Divisions Air Defence Bn, but the tactical SOC operational personell, such as track production, Intercept control, Master controller, ECM/ECCM are manned by the Air Force.

The Midtguardian Air Force has several deficiancies.

First and foremost is the lack of serious areial refueling assets. The F 4 conversions are stop gap only. Four C 130 J medium transports are urgently
required and are on the top of the Air Force priority list. The C 130 may be converted from transports to tankers and back again without much
prepraration.

The other priority is the E 2 Hawkeye. The MDF did contract three E 2 Hawkeye ten years ago but when these were delivered they were of very poor
quality as well as partially destroyed during transport. They were returned to the contractor and Midtguardia har so far not been able to recover
the lost funds. This does not mean that we have given up on the Hawkeyes as they will be a significant force multiplier giving the final 48 ship Typhoon force valuable capability boost.

On the wish list is also four Poseidon maritime patrol craft, enhancing our limited ASW capability and two Rivet Joint control birds as well as a couple of medium EW birds.

 

[ngatimozart]

G'day Bozoo,

I don't think that I was on here when you were posting about Midtguardian earlier. Could it be possible for you to give us newbies some background on the nation; population, government type, GDP, it's economy, wealth etc., please? Gives us an idea of what we are working with. Given that it appears to be complicated with Norway, would I be correct in presuming that it has significant mineral deposits including hydrocarbons?

This nation of yours exhibited in models that tell a story, looks like an extremely interesting project that I look forward to following. In these troubled times take care and stay safe.

 

[Bozoo2]

Now for the navy.

The Midtguardian Navy defends the Coastal waters of Midtguardia. With an archipelago of hundreds of small islands. It is tasked both With preventing amfibious landings as well as keeping the sealanes open. It is partially equipped to handle the first of these tasks, but is woefully underequipped to keep the sealanes open.

The littoral part of the navy consists of five Storm class gun/missile boats With 1 x 76 m m Bofors main gun, 1 x 40 m m anti Aircraft gun and six Penguin launchers equipped With Penguin II antiship missiles. With their high speed and shallow draught and comprehensive weapons suite they are ideally suited for defending the island litterede coastline of Vestfold in the Oslo fiord. The boats are serviced by a floating dock of indigenious design.

The defence of the island is enhenced by Three WWII era LCT landing Craft and a larger LSU landing Craft of contemporary German design, able to
transport army combat teams and even tanks to the islands.

The blue water navy consists of two Oslo Class Frigates of somewhat obesolecency, the MNS Kong Sverre and MNS Jarl Einar.

These are comparively large ships of 1950 tons equipped With 1 x 3" twin gun turret, 1 x Bofors 40 m m L/70 anti Aircraft gun, 2 x torpedo tubes With Sting Ray torpedoes, Sea sparrow SAMs, Terne III ASW missiles, 2 x 20 m m anti Aircraft guns as well as upgraded sensor suits. These ships were operational in the Norwegian navy up until 2007 and include traditional Depth charges and six Penguin launchers With Penguin II missiles.

The major drawback of the Frigates are lack of close in Weapon systems and euipping these with Phalanx is a major priority in the navy.

The Navy also has one Nordkapp klasse ASW vessel. This is a coats guard vessel in the Norwegian navy, but is constructed so as to be easily converted to an ASW ship, a conversion having been done to the MNS Frigg, the Midtguardian navy's only ship of this class. The Frigg has a displacement of 3200 tons and a complement of 58. It flys NH 90 Maritime helicopters. It is armed by a single 57 m m gun turret and four 20 m m anti Aircraft guns. The MNS FRigg will usually not operate without the Company of one of the Frigates.

The final large ship of the navy is the Svalbard class MNS Grindarvold which is the flagship of the fleet of 6375 ton deplasement. It has a large helicopter platform and staff accommodations as well as on board hospital facilities. It is armed with a single 57 m m multipurpose turret gun, two 20 m m anti aircraft guns and a Avenger system anti aircraft pod firing stingers. It is equipped with a EADS TRS-3D air surveillance radar.

The navy has two launches, one personell transport and one mine layer to maintain the permenant, remotely controlled minefields layin in the major approaches. It also has two small harbour patrol boats with a searchlight and a 50 cal machine gun.

This completes the Midtguardian Navy roster for the moment.

The navy has decided to aquire four submarines of the German U 212 design, ideally suited for littoral defence. This on top of the navy priority list and in fact on the top of the overall MDF priority.

I am unsure of any further navy investments. When, and if, the navy procures the submarines, the MNS Grindarvold will act as a submarine support ship. I need a couple of coastal tugs, a coastel fuel tanker, a couple of mine sweepers and possible some CB 90 assault craft. I am not sure whether it is possible at all to aquire and operate a blue water navy that would have any kind of survivablity on its own. The task would be to keep the sealanes open and negate any attempt to blockade the approaches to Midtguardia.

Any input is welcome.

Bozoo