2016 Turkish coup d'état

[Weazel]

I have to wonder if the US really did not know that this was not going to occur, I mean the White House was quick responding with support for the Turkish President but it wasn't until the coup looked like it was going to fail. The commander of US Central Command was in Turkey and met with high ranking Turkish military officials about a week ago. They were supposed to be talking about the operations against ISIS but I wonder if someone didn't give a hat tip to this occurring.

 

[Feanor]

Feanor, your second link must be a wrong one.

It's working fine for me. It leads to an article titled

"Turkey's top judicial board HSYK orders detention of 2,745 Gülen-linked judges over coup attempt"

If you google the title, the article comes up.

 

[GermanHerman]

I have to wonder if the US really did not know that this was not going to occur, I mean the White House was quick responding with support for the Turkish President but it wasn't until the coup looked like it was going to fail. The commander of US Central Command was in Turkey and met with high ranking Turkish military officials about a week ago. They were supposed to be talking about the operations against ISIS but I wonder if someone didn't give a hat tip to this occurring.

Given the ressources of the US inteligence Services and the rather unprofessionell way the Coup was perpetrated I cant imagine that there was no knowledge about the events prior to the happening.

But even if the US knew about some Plans the outcome of such events is fairly unpredictable untill everything has start to move.

 

[Toblerone]

It's working fine for me. It leads to an article titled

"Turkey's top judicial board HSYK orders detention of 2,745 Gülen-linked judges over coup attempt"

If you google the title, the article comes up.

That is the third link. I was talking about the second link.

 

[ralphy99]

It appears Incirlik is a pawn of Erdogan's consolidation of power after the coup, Erdogan wants the US to extradite Iman Gullen to Turkey to face charges of plotting the coup. The US says they will if there is evidence (of which we currently don't have)..

It may be a while before Incirlik is operational again.

Daesh rejoices.

I am beginning to question the efficacy of having Turkey as a NATO partner.

 

[John Fedup]

I am beginning to question the efficacy of having Turkey as a NATO partner.

I am questioning why F-35s are going to be supplied to Turkey while an Islamic fascist like Erdogan is in charge.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I am questioning why F-35s are going to be supplied to Turkey while an Islamic fascist like Erdogan is in charge.

Turkey has always been a strategically important western friendly nation. On the edge of the middle east, access into eastern Europe, Africa, Mediterranean, middle east. Historically its been critical to many empires.

Previously they had been pretty stable (for a middle eastern or Mediterranean country) and pretty secular. While a particular leader has been a bit out of center, these relationships take decades to build and may see half a dozen leaders in that time.

Also if you cut turkey off (and you would be pulling out of a relationship 50+ years in the making), who do you deal with instead. Syria? Egypt? Serbia?

Turkey is also in on things like the NATO nuclear program and has been a key US nuclear ally.

But recent events aren't strengthening that relationship.

 

[ralphy99]

I am questioning why F-35s are going to be supplied to Turkey while an Islamic fascist like Erdogan is in charge.

they also make the forward fuselage frame supporting the cockpit of the f-35.

they are official friends of America whom we support for full membership admittance into the EU.

 

[ngatimozart]

It appears that about 6,000 have been detained so far and the count will undoubtedly rise. It seems to be that Erdogan will use this to further tighten his grip on power and probably head towards an absolute presidency. The witch hunt has truly started and the purging will undoubtedly carry on for weeks if not months until he believes that he has rooted out every iota of opposition to his rule. Enemies within and without, both real and perceived will be targeted. One Turkish govt minister has even claimed that Washington was behind the coup and Erdogan has hinted that Parliament may look at reinstating the death penalty. What remains a mystery at the moment is the who and why of the coup.

 

[ralphy99]

According to NBC news, Incirlik has resumed flight operations. All is well and we are best friends forever.

Oh, and the Turkish commander of Incirlik has been arrested and detained by the Turkish authorities.

All is well.

Carry on your appointed duties.

See you at the O club.

Dismissed.

 

[STURM]

The prevailing view is that the coup plotters did what they did because of their President's policy over Syria, the Kurdish issue and the increasing Islamisation of the country but who know? There also could be other reasons that led to it. The key question is how much support the coup plotters still have within the military and whether Erdogan will really be able to purge all those who supported and participated in the coup.

Given the ressources of the US inteligence Services.

I would imagine that U.S. intelligence assets in the region are focused more on Syria and Iraq and that its resources are already stretched thin. No doubt the U.S. probably has some HUMINT within the Turkish military and government but the fact remains that even the Turkish military and government was surprised by the coup attempt.

I am questioning why F-35s are going to be supplied to Turkey while an Islamic fascist like Erdogan is in charge.

If we go on that basis; the U.S. would have to evaluate its relationship with a whole list of countries. Turkey is just too important in the larger scheme of things; just like countries like Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain and others. And why is Egypt still the 2nd largest beneficiary of U.S. aid after Israel; despite being led by a government that came to power by a coup?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...riminals-getting-rid-of-secular-a7141556.html

 

[Rimasta]

Wondering if this is all just a farce

To me this Coup is very odd, almost like this was Turkey's "night of the long knives." The real winner in this Coup is clearly Erdogan, it's gone almost perfectly, almost as if this were already planned.


Why stage a coup when the President is out of position? Would it not be better to initiate a Coup when the President and other senior figures can be more easily captured? To me it doesn't seem a strong or even a well planned attempt was made to detain him, and without detaining Erdogan, any Coup would be doomed from the start.


I'm wondering if this was planned by Erdogan's Gvm't so as to consolidate power completely in Turkey. Judges are being arrested, the Army is going to be under a much tighter leash, domestic political support has gone up to protect "Turkish democracy" (a term I find laughable, if one would call Turkey democratic, then I suppose they are just tuning in-Turkey resembles a autocracy more than a democracy), and now Turkey is demanding (from its "Allies") that certain opposition figures be extradited to Turkey all while the Turkish PM keeps floating the idea of restoring the death penalty for the Coup plotters. Thousands of people are being arrested as well in this dragnet, and the weekend isn't even over yet, this looks and smells like a setup.

One thing that also stood out is the swiftness of Erdogan's Gvm't response, to even making public demands of the United States, this strikes me as being planned as a means to solidify power, to silence domestic and foreign opposition,it couldn't have gone any better for Erdogan.

Is anyone else noticing how perfect things just went for him? Awfully convienent I find.

 

[Muukalainen]

To me this Coup is very odd, almost like this was Turkey's "night of the long knives." The real winner in this Coup is clearly Erdogan, it's gone almost perfectly, almost as if this were already planned.


Why stage a coup when the President is out of position? Would it not be better to initiate a Coup when the President and other senior figures can be more easily captured? To me it doesn't seem a strong or even a well-planned attempt was made to detain him, and without detaining Erdogan, any Coup would be doomed from the start.


I'm wondering if this was planned by Erdogan's Gvm't so as to consolidate power completely in Turkey. Judges are being arrested, the Army is going to be under a much tighter leash, domestic political support has gone up to protect "Turkish democracy" (a term I find laughable, if one would call Turkey democratic, then I suppose they are just tuning in-Turkey resembles an autocracy more than a democracy), and now Turkey is demanding (from its "Allies") that certain opposition figures be extradited to Turkey all while the Turkish PM keeps floating the idea of restoring the death penalty for the Coup plotters. Thousands of people are being arrested as well in this dragnet, and the weekend isn't even over yet, this looks and smells like a setup.

One thing that also stood out is the swiftness of Erdogan's Gvm't response, to even making public demands of the United States, this strikes me as being planned as a means to solidify power, to silence domestic and foreign opposition,it couldn't have gone any better for Erdogan.

Is anyone else noticing how perfect things just went for him? Awfully convenient I find.

I was thinking the same thing, though I would have said it was his Reichstag fire. While there is not concrete evidence, as far as I am aware, of Erdogan secretly causing the coup, it is in line with his stated desire to increase the power of the president to more resemble the president of the US; I believe I am remembering this information correctly, if not, please correct me. And he did not even have to start it or aid them in any way, he only needed to make sure it hit the sweet spot; powerful enough to be a clear and present danger, but not powerful enough to actually be able to overthrow him. I personally see this as Erdogan's moment to become the defacto dictator of Turkey. I may be wrong, but there are many historical precedents.

 

[John Fedup]

Turkey has always been a strategically important western friendly nation. On the edge of the middle east, access into eastern Europe, Africa, Mediterranean, middle east. Historically its been critical to many empires.


But recent events aren't strengthening that relationship.

That's the problem, Erdogan is unreliable and he is getting worse. He is an Islamic extremist in waiting who will bite the West in the ar$e, if given sufficient time. The same can be said for our for our other so called friends in the ME but at least we aren't currently offering the state-of-the-art leading edge stuff to them, ...yet! Historically, Turkey usefulness was providing missile launching sites for striking the USSR during the cold war when long range missile technology was limited.

IMHO, many are likely asking why we should trust Turkey to remain in NATO and for many other reasons their chances of EU membership are approaching zero.

 

[swerve]

...The commander of US Central Command was in Turkey and met with high ranking Turkish military officials about a week ago. They were supposed to be talking about the operations against ISIS but I wonder if someone didn't give a hat tip to this occurring.

If the coup had been organised at that level it would have been much bigger, & would probably have succeeded. This looks like a half-arsed coup by a damn small part of the armed forces.

There are suggestions that it may have been Gulenist, launched hurriedly to pre-empt a planned purge of Gulenists. That would explain why it was poorly organised. I have no idea if the suggestions have any truth in them, though.

Sad that a couple of hundred people have been killed, & unfortunately it's strengthened Erdogan. Even many people who loathe him & the AKP rallied round him, because however much they dislike him & his methods, very many of them are even more strongly opposed to coups.

 

[StingrayOZ]

That's the problem, Erdogan is unreliable and he is getting worse. He is an Islamic extremist in waiting who will bite the West in the ar$e, if given sufficient time. The same can be said for our for our other so called friends in the ME but at least we aren't currently offering the state-of-the-art leading edge stuff to them, ...yet! Historically, Turkey usefulness was providing missile launching sites for striking the USSR during the cold war when long range missile technology was limited.

IMHO, many are likely asking why we should trust Turkey to remain in NATO and for many other reasons their chances of EU membership are approaching zero.

I would imagine US support will be slow to appear and be getting slower.

Turkeys location however is very strategic for US to base out of (not just missiles). It is also a bit of a buffer state for the EU proper. But when the costs start to out weigh the benefits support will dry up quickly. Its not like the US can't operate without Turkey.

I would imagine US, France and Germany would all be re-considering every relationship they have with Turkey currently. Particularly if this coup is used as a reason to completely purge via death penalty any opposition. That would put him in the bad guy camp pretty quickly.

Then I would imagine things like the F-35, the JC1 amphibious ship and other joint support would start to dry up pretty quickly.

 

[Joe Black]

Erdogen seems like a dangerous man, I too, wouldn't be too surprised he kinda of wanted the coup to happen so that he can not only purge the oppositions in the military, but also convinced the non the wiser population why he needed more power.

I typically disagree in coups, but in the case of Turkey, it might be a necessary evil.

Given Erdogen secretly supported the ISIS, purchased stolen oil from ISIS, opportunistically bombed the PKK in Syria rather than putting more effort to secure their borders with Syria from ISIS, I think we are in for a much radical Turkey, and I am highly surprised that the EU is considering letting Turkey join them.

I am worried the vast amount of military tech that goes to Turkey. The west might regret this one day. I also hope that Israel becomes a little more restrained in trying to flog off all their high tech stuff to Turkey.

 

[STURM]

The same can be said for our for our other so called friends in the ME but at least we aren't currently offering the state-of-the-art leading edge stuff to them, ...yet! Historically, Turkey usefulness was providing missile launching sites for striking the USSR during the cold war when long range missile technology was limited.

During the Cold War, Turkey had a very important role to play; being on the Soviet Union's southern flank. Turkey was a base for U-2 operations and U.S. ELINT/SIGINT stations.

As for the Gulf States, there is very little that they're not allowed to buy. The billions they spent on arms is very appreciated by those selling those arms. Also, they may not be part of NATO but in the event of an external threat on the likes of Saudi, Qatar and Bahrain; the U.S. would get involved, even if the conflict arose out of miscalculations or mistakes made by those countries.

Given Erdogen secretly supported the ISIS, purchased stolen oil from ISIS, opportunistically bombed the PKK in Syria rather than putting more effort to secure their borders with Syria from ISIS, I think we are in for a much radical Turkey, and I am highly surprised that the EU is considering letting Turkey join them.

And off course under Erdogen, Turkey is still denying it's part in the mass murder/holocaust of the Armenians. This is unlikely to change, even if Erdogen is replaced by someone else who is more favourable to the international community.

 

[2007yellow430]

From what I've been seeing in the news, it appears that there are mass arrests, and abuse of those in custody. This isn't going to bode well for NATO and the war against ISIS, if true.

Art

 

[STURM]

Never mind NATO and the war against IS. It isn't going well for Turkey as a whole.

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