Russian Army/Ground Forces Discussion and Updates
- Thread starter Jack Johnson
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Makes good sense, I've been following Naval development and it seems to be slowing based on a few things. Lack of remaining experience, COGAG engines etc.
I will say, compared to their western counterparts their smaller frigates are far more lethal as we've seen with the recent Kalibre launches.
Makes good sense, I've been following Naval development and it seems to be slowing based on a few things. Lack of remaining experience, COGAG engines etc.
I will say, compared to their western counterparts their smaller frigates are far more lethal as we've seen with the recent Kalibre launches.
I just read a bit about the t-14 on wikipedia. AESA multidirectional radar, self defense system, remote controlled turret and guns, all around zoomable cameras for situational awareness etc etc ...
And they plan on mass producing these vehicles? Is that really feasible? I would be impressed.
Also, are there any videos of tests of any of these self protection systems? Like this one or Trophy or another?
And they plan on mass producing these vehicles? Is that really feasible? I would be impressed.
Also, are there any videos of tests of any of these self protection systems? Like this one or Trophy or another?
Agreed. Specs are impressive. Clearly outranges its Western counterparts at 8000 meters. I think it's a generational jump forward for them. The Afgnit active protection systems is also a game changer. Up until it's fielded the only others MBT with something similar is the IDF Merkava. The US has tested that system on the M1 series but didn't move forward(yet).
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To answer both of you, it's a bit muddled. So first off, there has not been a test of it, publicly. Who knows what they've done quietly. The T-14 is up for state trials, so during those it will definitely get tested, quite possibly footage published. On the specs, the original obj. 195 was the real game changer. It had a totally new bigger gun, a 30mm coaxial, completely mechanized ammo storage, and FCS radar for the main weapon. All it needed was better ERA arrangement, especially on side skirts, and Afganit installed. The T-14 has an upgraded gun from the T-90M series, doesn't have any coaxial, only a wimpy 7.62 on a commanders mount, and slaved to a rotating panoramic sight. Now, does it have an FCS radar, or only small scattered radars for the APS? Not clear. My bet is, no. But maybe it does.
It's also been said that work is proceeding on not one but two 152mm armed variants of the T-14, one a sort of BMPT, the other a new tank gun to up-gun it. If they decided to go with no radar now, it might be a later addition as they upgrade the gun. It also desperately needs a coaxial, and not just a 7.62 but also something bigger.
I regard the T-14 as a highly potent design with a very interesting future, but at the same time it should not be made more than it is.
The basic characteristics of this tank have been known for more than 15 years, and the tank came at no surprise at all. Some newspapers played it up like that, "Russians unveil brand-new secret tank!", but that is nonsense.
The 125 mm gun is in fact the least impressive aspect about it, a budgetary cut measure that falls short of what they originally wanted. But a later update to a bigger gun might still be part of the design.
The 140mm guns research in the West were all projects from the 1980's and have long since been dormant. Whether this research will be taken up again or a different route chosen is up in the stars right now.
The basic characteristics of this tank have been known for more than 15 years, and the tank came at no surprise at all. Some newspapers played it up like that, "Russians unveil brand-new secret tank!", but that is nonsense.
The 125 mm gun is in fact the least impressive aspect about it, a budgetary cut measure that falls short of what they originally wanted. But a later update to a bigger gun might still be part of the design.
The 140mm guns research in the West were all projects from the 1980's and have long since been dormant. Whether this research will be taken up again or a different route chosen is up in the stars right now.
Yes, I'm concerned with the complexity and cost and worried that they will not be mass produced.
It is impressive to read the combat history of the Trophy system on those buff israeli tanks. If the israelis are relying on it and adopting it, it must be practical, they know their stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)
And in stark contrast watching tanks get smoked (usually) by those slooowww and awkward-moving TOW rockets fired from a tube on a tripod and operated by random paramilitaries. Even getting hit while maneuvering, because the rockets are manually guided.
Active protection systems will come standard with future MBTs I believe.
EDIT: Personally, I am not really concerned about the gun. What would a bigger gun achieve, superiority in long-range tank duels with another MBT? I don't think it is worth it.
It is impressive to read the combat history of the Trophy system on those buff israeli tanks. If the israelis are relying on it and adopting it, it must be practical, they know their stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)
And in stark contrast watching tanks get smoked (usually) by those slooowww and awkward-moving TOW rockets fired from a tube on a tripod and operated by random paramilitaries. Even getting hit while maneuvering, because the rockets are manually guided.
Active protection systems will come standard with future MBTs I believe.
EDIT: Personally, I am not really concerned about the gun. What would a bigger gun achieve, superiority in long-range tank duels with another MBT? I don't think it is worth it.
It is not primarily about range. Rather about penetration, speed and mass. The latter two values make it more resistant against active protection systems. Should protection systems one day mature to a level where they reliably intercept even the most modern kinetic rounds from the 120 mm gun, then upping the ante will be necessary. A bigger gun potentitally shoots a bigger, heavier and faster round, making it more difficult to intercept while also enhancing the penetration against modern reactive and passive armour arrays.
The biggest thing about it is that it will give Russia a truly modern MBT. At the end of the day it's not even so important whether they go with the Armata, or had conservatively bought the T-90MS instead, what's important is that they get a modern tank and a modern heavy chassis. The first Armata Tank Bde will be a huge step forward, because the motor-rifles btln, the tank btlns, and a full complement of ARVs, will be all on the same chassis, and all modern vehicles. I think if they can also get a SHORAD onto the same chassis (I don't like the 57mm gun system they're planning), they will have a level of unification that will greatly streamline and improve operations. In principle they could even (finally) transfer the new Koalitsiya howitzer to the Armata chassis, though it's looking unlikely. This would mean that in the Tank Bde orbat, they would be down to a single armored chassis. Only the missile-arty btln would be different but it uses Ural trucks, same as their backend support units.
Is it because of rise of sales to the russian state? Or more exports?
It looks like Thailand might be opting for Russian T-90M series, due to delivery problems with the Ukrainian T-84. What's really amusing is that these delivery problems were forseen and predicted not only by experts, but literally by anyone who knew even a little of what went on in Ukrainian factories. And yet here we are...
To be precise they're considering the Chinese VT-4 and the Russian T-90M. And a Thai delegation visited UVZ as far back as May, it was kept quiet. It's important to note that Thailand is generally a buyer of Ukrainian arms, for example they bought a lot of BTR-3 APCs, with Ukrainian ATGM modules. And they seemed to be willing to wait fairly patiently, despite the fact that deliveries were late from the very start.
Gur Khan attacks!: VT-4 vs T-90S. Борьба за Ðзию.
Таиланд ищет новые танки - bmpd
And on the subject of arms exports, deliveries of the third T-90SA contract have begun to Algeria. Supposedly this third contract envisioned local assembly from knocked-down kits, but the first deliveries are fully built. Maybe the contract changed, or maybe only the first few are fully built.
Ð’ Ðлжир начата доÑтавкРтанков Т-90СРпо третьему контракту - bmpd
Apparently Russia is still buying the Iveco Lynx kits and assembling them, as of 2015 when 94 kits were brought in under just one (of multiple contracts), despite sanctions and despite the fact that the MoD officially stated it was going to discontinue the purchases. It's also noteworthy that after a set of trials in Russia, the MoD concluded the vehicle was not fit for combat duty. Which is quite funny, considering that they're currently being used in Syria.
It also appears that they've gone beyond the originally contracted 357 vehicles. Estimates of total numbers vary, but I would say that 500-1000 in service would be a conservative one at this point. As of right now two assembly plants are putting together the kits and they seem to be contracted for 356 vehicles between mid 2015 and mid 2016.
IVECO-Ð*Ñ‹ÑÑŒ: закупки продолжаютÑÑ, неÑÐ¼Ð¾Ñ‚Ñ€Ñ Ð½Ð° качеÑтво, проблемы и цены - alexeyvvo
It should be noted that Russia still has no alternative to the Iveco Lynx. The Tigr-6A project is dead. They couldn't manage the necessary protection levels even on a 6.5 ton vehicle. The closest is the Tayfunenok, which is indeed a real MRAP and is approaching state trials but has yet to get there. And is dependent on imported components. And weighs 14 tons. Making deploying it to Syria considerably more complex.
It also appears that they've gone beyond the originally contracted 357 vehicles. Estimates of total numbers vary, but I would say that 500-1000 in service would be a conservative one at this point. As of right now two assembly plants are putting together the kits and they seem to be contracted for 356 vehicles between mid 2015 and mid 2016.
IVECO-Ð*Ñ‹ÑÑŒ: закупки продолжаютÑÑ, неÑÐ¼Ð¾Ñ‚Ñ€Ñ Ð½Ð° качеÑтво, проблемы и цены - alexeyvvo
It should be noted that Russia still has no alternative to the Iveco Lynx. The Tigr-6A project is dead. They couldn't manage the necessary protection levels even on a 6.5 ton vehicle. The closest is the Tayfunenok, which is indeed a real MRAP and is approaching state trials but has yet to get there. And is dependent on imported components. And weighs 14 tons. Making deploying it to Syria considerably more complex.
The VDV is getting tank companies of T-72B3 tanks. This is in addition to the Sprut-SDM1 that they're going to start taking deliveries of in 2017. By the end of this year they're planning to get two prototypes of 122mm SP arty for the VDV. They're also working on an airdroppable Kamaz Tayfun. They're planning 140 BMD-4Ms and 90 BTR-MDMs this year, which is a lot. It remains to be seen whether the order can be filled.
Gur Khan attacks!: Главнокомандующий ВДВ лично протеÑтировал возможноÑти новой БМД-4Ðœ на полигоне Прудбой
Gur Khan attacks!: ПроизводÑтво бронетехники Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð’Ð”Ð’ ÑоÑредоточат на ВолгоградÑком тракторном заводе
ÐовоÑти ВДВ - Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½
EDIT: The news keep multiplying. The VDV is already testing a new anti-tank vehicle on the BTR-MDM chassis, called Robot. It's likely one or two Kornet-D modules (4X ATGMs on a mast) along with a battle-field medevac and an NBC-recon vehicle.
http://warfiles.ru/show-106176-v-ro...mashiny-protivotankovoy-artillerii-robot.html
The first RCWS stations will be delivered on Tigr-M armored cars this year.
http://twower.livejournal.com/1887542.html
And 4 new divisions will be added to the Land Forces this year, with 3 facing westward (1 in South MD near Ukraine, 2 in West MD). The 4th will be in Central MD. Some will be formed out of existing brigades.
http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/601807.html
http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/600959.html
Gur Khan attacks!: Главнокомандующий ВДВ лично протеÑтировал возможноÑти новой БМД-4Ðœ на полигоне Прудбой
Gur Khan attacks!: ПроизводÑтво бронетехники Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð’Ð”Ð’ ÑоÑредоточат на ВолгоградÑком тракторном заводе
ÐовоÑти ВДВ - Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½
EDIT: The news keep multiplying. The VDV is already testing a new anti-tank vehicle on the BTR-MDM chassis, called Robot. It's likely one or two Kornet-D modules (4X ATGMs on a mast) along with a battle-field medevac and an NBC-recon vehicle.
http://warfiles.ru/show-106176-v-ro...mashiny-protivotankovoy-artillerii-robot.html
The first RCWS stations will be delivered on Tigr-M armored cars this year.
http://twower.livejournal.com/1887542.html
And 4 new divisions will be added to the Land Forces this year, with 3 facing westward (1 in South MD near Ukraine, 2 in West MD). The 4th will be in Central MD. Some will be formed out of existing brigades.
http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/601807.html
http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/600959.html
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https://youtu.be/gxVLL_25gog
Look at that Armata tank. Video is like an advertisement of course but noone can deny it is impressive in some aspects. But, still will they be able to mass produce them and without technical problems? I think Russia is going to be stuck with T-72s for a long time.
Also, does the BMP version of it have the same hull armor? Or just the same ERA?
Look at that Armata tank. Video is like an advertisement of course but noone can deny it is impressive in some aspects. But, still will they be able to mass produce them and without technical problems? I think Russia is going to be stuck with T-72s for a long time.
Also, does the BMP version of it have the same hull armor? Or just the same ERA?
The same. The whole point was to get a BMP with the protection level of an MBT. Yes, T-72s are going to be around for another 10-15 years at least. They're forming new units at a fairly rapid rate, which means that even if they start re-arming some of the elite units with T-14s, it will still be a long time before they eliminate T-72s as a type.
Its weird how it swings after a shot.
I guess that's how it dampens the recoil. They boast about this advantage over regular tanks after the 12:20 mark.
Everything about this tank screams expensive and complicated. I wonder if they will actually mass produce it after all.
New combat engineer assault btlns are being created. Some photos from the first one, with two companies riding BTR-82A and the third on un-named heavy equipment. Note in the photos towards the end, the soldiers are wearing a variant of body armor that looks similar to the legionnaire armor displayed at a recent arms show.
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73550/
If you click on the link the legionnaire suit is the grey on the left. What they're wearing appears to be more of what the gentlemen in the back is wearing.
http://i.imgur.com/TfKmX4q.jpg
Also some photos from the 11th Para-Assault Bde. Note it uses BMP-2s for vehicles, even though it's part of the VDV.
11-Ñ Ð³Ð². одшбр на БМП-2 - nortwolf_sam
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73550/
If you click on the link the legionnaire suit is the grey on the left. What they're wearing appears to be more of what the gentlemen in the back is wearing.
http://i.imgur.com/TfKmX4q.jpg
Also some photos from the 11th Para-Assault Bde. Note it uses BMP-2s for vehicles, even though it's part of the VDV.
11-Ñ Ð³Ð². одшбр на БМП-2 - nortwolf_sam
They boast about recoil being smaller than in other tanks, but what we see is quite the opposite.
Look at this for instance:
https://youtu.be/DODiCTJig6o?t=128
Hardly any movement at all.