I believe Brazil is obtaining licence production rights for the two seat model of the Gripen NG. So if Argentina wanted an entire fleet of two seaters, they'd all come from Brazil...
Brazilian Air Force News and Discussion
- Thread starter RobWilliams
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the concerned
Active Member
To be honest I would have thought the best Argentina could hope for or afford at the moment would be ex Brazilian F-5's/amx's as they are replaced. Everything else is a pipe dream.
Kasatka
Member
that is certainly true, but that would have been another maintenance headache for the AAF, so that's not in their interest at all.
the kfir deal, was very short of being closed... but the holdouts issue seems to have made it impossible for argentina to follow that upgrade path. anyway, most think that the deal would have been like "sweeping dirt under the carpet"... the more you think about the kfir c.10's capabilities the more you notice that it doesn't catch up to most of 4th gen aircraft stationed in south america; short term measure? maybe. a "on the long run" solution, no way.
The US can block sale of the radar to Brazil.
You fail to understand that the Gripen is full of US technology and none of that is going to Brazil without US consent.
You might also wish to read the election results from the US today. Sen John McCain is the new Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee come January. You might wish to explore his views on the leftist governments of Brazil.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #26
Boeing was cleared to supply the F/A-18 to Brazil. That's a thing. That's why it made it to the final 3. Boeing has also made significant steps in collaboration with Embraer on marketing the KC-390 and developing the aircrafts technology.
We're not failing to understand anything, on the contrary, what we believe you don't understand is that why - if the US Govt was prepared to sell Super Hornets - they would object to the powerplant and other subcomponents?
Not to mention that if Brazil believed that to be a legitimate concern they would have had to resort to the Rafale,
We're not failing to understand anything, on the contrary, what we believe you don't understand is that why - if the US Govt was prepared to sell Super Hornets - they would object to the powerplant and other subcomponents?
Not to mention that if Brazil believed that to be a legitimate concern they would have had to resort to the Rafale,
fireduke86
New Member
Which, as I recall, at one time or another, to be an attractive proposition to the Brazilians because they can replace their modernised Skyhawks for their carrier with a similar make?
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You keep going on about the radar. Why do you think the USA can block its sale?
You've not responded to the information I gave about the radar in my previous post: it's a British-Swedish development of a British radar (made by a British subsidiary of an Italian firm), which is marketed as ITAR-free. Why, having gone to the trouble of keeping it ITAR-free up to the point where it was selected for Gripen, would it then have US content added?
Selex Galileo is not based in the USA. Most of its staff are in Italy & the UK. The US branch, Selex Galileo Inc., does not do radar development, according to its own website. Why would it be tasked with something it does not normally do, on a product which up to that point had been deliberately kept free of US content?
So, I ask again - why do you think the USA can block sale of the radar?
The main US content of Gripen is, as it always has been, in the engine, most of which is US-designed & for Gripen E, US-built.
And as you've already been asked, why would the USA start blocking the sale of exactly the same technology to Brazil that until Gripen was selected it was actively trying to sell, to a government headed by the same president - & which it started trying to sell when Bush was president?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I don't think they would unless a U.S. Fighter vendor expressed concerns about Brazilian export sales of locally built Gripens to SA customers. IMO, there is no vendor who would do this other than maybe a company selling upgraded surplus F-16s, the only affordable option for most SA countries intererested in Western fighters.
But since the US would have a veto over any such sales, because of the engine, why block the sale to Brazil?
And in any case, why would a US firm wanting to block Gripen sales in case they prevented it getting F-16 upgrade work have more clout than GE, which would want to sell more new engines?
Note that second hand F-16s aren't sold by Lockheed Martin. They're sold by the governments that own them. Romania, for example, bought its F-16s from Portugal. LM is being paid to update software, & no doubt will get support work.
And in any case, why would a US firm wanting to block Gripen sales in case they prevented it getting F-16 upgrade work have more clout than GE, which would want to sell more new engines?
Note that second hand F-16s aren't sold by Lockheed Martin. They're sold by the governments that own them. Romania, for example, bought its F-16s from Portugal. LM is being paid to update software, & no doubt will get support work.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Would GE (USA) actually be supplying engines for the Gripens built in Brazil or would the engines be built by Volvo under license? I agree, the engines will be supplied one way or the other. Not doing so would create all sorts of undesirable trade/political hassles.
Volvo Aero (now part of GKN Aerospace) does not build the F414. It makes parts which are used in all F414s.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
Interesting comment from the head of programs for the Brazilian Air Force.
Brazil May Buy Over 100 Gripen Jets - WSJ - WSJ
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-best-little-air-force-youre-barely-aware-of-9eea17dedf55
That's a nice piece about what Brazil's air force does inside the country, aircraft like the Super Tucano are ideal for fighting drug cartels/smugglers
Brazil May Buy Over 100 Gripen Jets - WSJ - WSJ
We all know that for years FX-2 was going nowhere fast, although progress from contract signing to aircraft delivery is meant to be quick. That being said, it's not unexpected to see them move for an all Gripen fleet *except* Super Tucano, don't see them retiring those considering the role they occupy is just right for internal missions.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-best-little-air-force-youre-barely-aware-of-9eea17dedf55
That's a nice piece about what Brazil's air force does inside the country, aircraft like the Super Tucano are ideal for fighting drug cartels/smugglers
[I]But since the US would have a veto over any such sales, because of the engine, why block the sale to Brazil?[/I]
Brazil is not an ally of the United States and its foreign policy is antagonistic to the United States. Its support of Cuba, to include its multi-billion dollar investment in Cuban infrastructure, its support for Chavismo and Venezuela, its support for domestic Italian terrorists currently sheltered in Brazil, its support for the Russians in their attempts to swallow-up Ukraine, are only several reasons to block the sale. There is a new Senate, controlled by Republicans, who do not see Brazil through the eyes of the Leftist Obama.
Brazil is not an ally of the United States and its foreign policy is antagonistic to the United States. Its support of Cuba, to include its multi-billion dollar investment in Cuban infrastructure, its support for Chavismo and Venezuela, its support for domestic Italian terrorists currently sheltered in Brazil, its support for the Russians in their attempts to swallow-up Ukraine, are only several reasons to block the sale. There is a new Senate, controlled by Republicans, who do not see Brazil through the eyes of the Leftist Obama.
Note that second hand F-16s aren't sold by Lockheed Martin. They're sold by the governments that own them. Romania, for example, bought its F-16s from Portugal. LM is being paid to update software, & no doubt will get support work.
The governments owning F-16's can sell or transfer them to another country without US Government permission. Its part of the condition of the original sale. Portugal had to receive US permission, and did, to sell them to Romania.
The governments owning F-16's can sell or transfer them to another country without US Government permission. Its part of the condition of the original sale. Portugal had to receive US permission, and did, to sell them to Romania.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #36
I say again, why would the US block the sale of the engine If it was FULLY PREPARED to sell F/A-18E/F aircraft which includes that engine (two, in fact).
Can't sell you mean? Because usually FMS deals have those ties in the deal - we've still got some F4K's lying around that we can't dispose of due to restrictions, despite the engines, radar and comms all being UK kit.
You're giving 'reasons' which those Republicans didn't think were reasons when they controlled the executive, & haven't cited since. Republicans in the US congress have been pretty strong in support of arms sales to Brazil, including F-18E. But you think this policy is going to change all of a sudden, without any change in Brazilian policy.
The problem here is that your arguments are theoretical, & ignore facts. The USA has consistently sold, & tried to sell, weapons to Brazil, regardless of the flavour of the Brazilian government or the party in power in the USA. It's still trying, & it's currently delivering arms which Brazil has bought. Brazil is regarded as a friendly country by the USA.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
US simply will not jeopardize relationship with South America biggest economy over F-414, which also means straining realtionship with Scandinavian strongest country, over Brazilian policies which 'say' sympathetic with Russian position in Ukraine.
Relationship with Brazil or Sweden is much more important with what Brazil position on what happen in Eastern Ukraine or Investment in Cuba, or Venezualla. Brazil is simply much more important for US then the feeling of Ukrainian government or Republicans hard liners. Something that the majority of Moderat-Right Wingers Republicans understand. Afterall this is Republicans we're talking about...in the end business outweight hawkish-hardliners-tea party thinking for majority of Republicans in congress.
Relationship with Brazil or Sweden is much more important with what Brazil position on what happen in Eastern Ukraine or Investment in Cuba, or Venezualla. Brazil is simply much more important for US then the feeling of Ukrainian government or Republicans hard liners. Something that the majority of Moderat-Right Wingers Republicans understand. Afterall this is Republicans we're talking about...in the end business outweight hawkish-hardliners-tea party thinking for majority of Republicans in congress.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #40
The first pair of Brazilian Air Force pilots have made their first flight in a Gripen D over the Baltic sea, 50 minute sortie on the 19th. These two pilots will fly on the Gripen for 6 months and be the first Brazilian instructors for the type. They were Mirage 2000C and F-5 pilots before and noted an 'aerodynamic advantage' with the Gripen.
Simulator training has also begun.
Brazil begins flight training on Gripen - 11/20/2014 - Flight Global
Janes also confirms a senior Brazilian Air Force officer as saying they have an ultimate requirement for 108 Gripens in 3 batches (3 x 36 = 108) but that was based on a study in 2007, the world - both politically and economically - is very different so that'll be subject to change.
A number of indiginous missiles are already down for integration with the Gripen, two SRAAMs and one ARM.
One other interesting point was that the FAB has reportedly been in discussions with the USN about the ideal mix of single and twin seaters they should be operating.
Brazil requires 'at least' 108 Gripen fighters - IHS Jane's 360
Simulator training has also begun.
Brazil begins flight training on Gripen - 11/20/2014 - Flight Global
Janes also confirms a senior Brazilian Air Force officer as saying they have an ultimate requirement for 108 Gripens in 3 batches (3 x 36 = 108) but that was based on a study in 2007, the world - both politically and economically - is very different so that'll be subject to change.
A number of indiginous missiles are already down for integration with the Gripen, two SRAAMs and one ARM.
One other interesting point was that the FAB has reportedly been in discussions with the USN about the ideal mix of single and twin seaters they should be operating.
Brazil requires 'at least' 108 Gripen fighters - IHS Jane's 360